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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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 Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | | I have never taught the mechanics of vibrato. The student learns by example. |
Everyone is different, but that did not work for me when I was learning it, and it has not worked for a majority of students I have taught. I had one high school player who had a nice, controlled vibrato, and he really did not know how he produced it when first asked. The downside for him was trying NOT to use it.
My experience has been that most kids benefit from being taught and practicing it.
Brad |
One first must learn to listen. |
Yeah, well that's a nice succint little response, but IMO, one must then learn the mechanics of doing it. Most of my students are not able to simply acquire the technique through just listening to it any more than they are able to acquire skills like double tonguing (or triple tonguing, or increasing upper register, or ______) through some sort of musical osmosis process after they "learn to listen."
I believe a controlled, tasteful, appropriate to the musical genre and ensemble
situation vibrato has to be learned, "listening" alone will not do it.
Brad
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Billy B
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6130
Location: Des Moines
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | | I have never taught the mechanics of vibrato. The student learns by example. |
Everyone is different, but that did not work for me when I was learning it, and it has not worked for a majority of students I have taught. I had one high school player who had a nice, controlled vibrato, and he really did not know how he produced it when first asked. The downside for him was trying NOT to use it.
My experience has been that most kids benefit from being taught and practicing it.
Brad |
One first must learn to listen. |
Yeah, well that's a nice succint little response, but IMO, one must then learn the mechanics of doing it. Most of my students are not able to simply acquire the technique through just listening to it any more than they are able to acquire skills like double tonguing (or triple tonguing, or increasing upper register, or ______) through some sort of musical osmosis process after they "learn to listen."
I believe a controlled, tasteful, appropriate to the musical genre and ensemble
situation vibrato has to be learned, "listening" alone will not do it.
Brad |
To each his own.
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Bill Bergren |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | Billy B wrote: | | I have never taught the mechanics of vibrato. The student learns by example. |
Everyone is different, but that did not work for me when I was learning it, and it has not worked for a majority of students I have taught. I had one high school player who had a nice, controlled vibrato, and he really did not know how he produced it when first asked. The downside for him was trying NOT to use it.
My experience has been that most kids benefit from being taught and practicing it.
Brad |
One first must learn to listen. |
Yeah, well that's a nice succint little response, but IMO, one must then learn the mechanics of doing it. Most of my students are not able to simply acquire the technique through just listening to it any more than they are able to acquire skills like double tonguing (or triple tonguing, or increasing upper register, or ______) through some sort of musical osmosis process after they "learn to listen."
I believe a controlled, tasteful, appropriate to the musical genre and ensemble
situation vibrato has to be learned, "listening" alone will not do it.
Brad |
To each his own. |
Obviously.
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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MFaddicted
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Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:47 am Post subject: 3 types of vibrato |
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introduce the student and demo the three ways to get a vibrato and i am purposely leaving out breath vibrato
HAND MOVEMENT
LIP MOVEMENT
COMBINATION
Next, have the student try the hand movement and him her get used to making the pitch go flat then sharp
I prefer the combo so that is what i teach, but you should be able to take it from there |
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:41 am Post subject: Re: 3 types of vibrato |
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| MFaddicted wrote: | introduce the student and demo the three ways to get a vibrato and i am purposely leaving out breath vibrato
HAND MOVEMENT
LIP MOVEMENT
COMBINATION
Next, have the student try the hand movement and him her get used to making the pitch go flat then sharp
I prefer the combo so that is what i teach, but you should be able to take it from there |
How do you "combine" both? Do you mean using the hand on some pitches, and lip/jaw on others? And specifically how do you teach a student to "get used to" doing it? Start with a quarter note, then eighth note pattern?
I guess my point is most students that I teach need to learn a specific technique, simply having them listen to someone demonstrate it is not enough.....as it's not enough to learn other techniques. Most of my students need very specific, concrete, non-abstract exercises.
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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MFaddicted
Veteran Member
Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: 3 types of vibrato |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | MFaddicted wrote: | introduce the student and demo the three ways to get a vibrato and i am purposely leaving out breath vibrato
HAND MOVEMENT
LIP MOVEMENT
COMBINATION
Next, have the student try the hand movement and him her get used to making the pitch go flat then sharp
I prefer the combo so that is what i teach, but you should be able to take it from there |
How do you "combine" both? Do you mean using the hand on some pitches, and lip/jaw on others? And specifically how do you teach a student to "get used to" doing it? Start with a quarter note, then eighth note pattern?
I guess my point is most students that I teach need to learn a specific technique, simply having them listen to someone demonstrate it is not enough.....as it's not enough to learn other techniques. Most of my students need very specific, concrete, non-abstract exercises.
Brad |
Ummm that is why i said:
DEMO the three techniques of vibrato for brass players then have the student try all three, then steer them towards what you think will work.
For me , it is always the combo....just the way it is plus when you play up high you reduce the chance of getting a lip trill out by mstake |
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razeontherock
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'm amazed what you can do with tongue vibrato. Nobody mentioned that? Use that, and add hand vibrato to it, and BAM!
The other problem of course is those that can't turn it off. Ya gots ta be able to play a straight note ... |
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MFaddicted
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Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| hmmmm ok ill give it a try. |
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x9ret
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Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 517
Location: Liverpool, UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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My playing is better since removing vibrato from my playing and trying to use some subtle hand vibrato instead.
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: Re: 3 types of vibrato |
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| MFaddicted wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: | | MFaddicted wrote: | introduce the student and demo the three ways to get a vibrato and i am purposely leaving out breath vibrato
HAND MOVEMENT
LIP MOVEMENT
COMBINATION
Next, have the student try the hand movement and him her get used to making the pitch go flat then sharp
I prefer the combo so that is what i teach, but you should be able to take it from there |
How do you "combine" both? Do you mean using the hand on some pitches, and lip/jaw on others? And specifically how do you teach a student to "get used to" doing it? Start with a quarter note, then eighth note pattern?
I guess my point is most students that I teach need to learn a specific technique, simply having them listen to someone demonstrate it is not enough.....as it's not enough to learn other techniques. Most of my students need very specific, concrete, non-abstract exercises.
Brad |
Ummm that is why i said:
DEMO the three techniques of vibrato for brass players then have the student try all three, then steer them towards what you think will work.
For me , it is always the combo....just the way it is plus when you play up high you reduce the chance of getting a lip trill out by mstake |
Uh, ok, I get it, you may teach them to use more than one technique. Got it. I guess "combine" made me think they would somehow use more than one technique simultaneously on the same note. Mea culpa. 
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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crzytptman
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 10124
Location: Escondido California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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I always thought the 3 types were:
hand
embouchure
breath
Anyway, I have the student play a passage while I finger their instrument and apply the hand vibrato. I think hand is the easiest to learn first. I explain and demonstrate the other 2, and the combination of the other 2. The student can experiment while listening to great players.
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Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
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Bill W
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Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 380
Location: Delray Beach, FL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Make students watch 3 hours of Lawrence Welk reruns per day!
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Bill Wasserman
Shires B-LW
Shires Custom C
1962 Quesnon Flugel
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iMEHat1PXV0 Playing Maynard's "Hey There" |
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crzytptman
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 10124
Location: Escondido California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Or . . .
http://youtu.be/I2lVVwy9b_E
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Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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