SC4, fit for symphony?

Zenith · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 147

I mainly play in orchestra with symphonic work. I have just started on setting up my MSC. I immediately noted my previous mpc (a GR 67C*, which is similar to Bach 1.5C) is quite big and difficult to control. Perhaps I am still too young in MSC. Then I tried a Bach 7C, things were much better. I read on Callet's web that the SC4 is similar in diameter to a 7C. But I am wondering if the medium-shallow cup has a sound that's big enough for symphonic work?

One problem that bothers me the most is my upper lip kept slipping out of the mpc whenever I climb up the scale. Very annoying!

trumpetplanet · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:52 am Post subject:

I have used an SC4 for classical playing.
It is really important that people recognise the difference between having a big sound and having a dark/spread sound. MSC players should have a dense focused tone that fits well as the top voice in an ensemble, where it belongs.
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trumpetplanet · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:56 am Post subject:

When you learn to play with MSC properly then you will have a bigger sound with much less air. People play with big mouthpieces because they equate big sound to being the result of using a lot of air, which may work for some, but it is a highly inefficient way of playing.
_________________
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Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.

https://neotericbrass.com/
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https://tonguecontrolled.info/

trumpetplanet · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:04 am Post subject:

As for the lip-slippage issue...

Remember that in MSC all of the magic happens inside the mouth. As you ascend, think about the compression of the tongue against the lips and top teeth rather than movement of the lips. This will help you to feel the need to grip the tongue with the lips, which in turn will prevent you from moving them in the wrong direction.
_________________
UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.

https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/

razeontherock · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:42 am Post subject:

As far as performing on a smaller, MSC appropriate size mouthpiece, you may not be able to do that in an orchestra right away. But practicing the technique on a mouthpiece that's "right" for the technique sure helps you develop faster! Last I heard the only mouthpiece Jerome favors more than the SC4 is the SC6, which is even shallower. Yes, you really can get a very nice tone out of a SC4.

Zenith · Veteran Member Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 147

Thanks for the replies guys. Have any of you tried the Wedge mouthpieces? Does the rim shape help holding the embouchure better? Is it a MSC frdly mpc if there is such a thing

ertatta · Heavyweight Member Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 856

why wouldn't his techniques work on your GR, which is certainly more appropriate for symphonic playing? i was playing a GR 67VC when i got a lesson with Jerome a couple years back and he never even brought the subject up. although i was playing his Jazz Bb and Symphonique C.

Jerry · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject:

I've recently joined a local community college orchestra -- 2 rehearsals so far, 3rd one tonight. We've read Beethoven's Egmont Overture and a Brahms serenade.

I'm using an SC6 with a Schilke large bore C-trumpet.

Though the conductor (a very fine trumpet player btw) has asked me to modify my attack and note length at the first rehearsal, he has not asked me to change my mouthpiece or adjust my sound in any other way.

tptguy · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:47 am Post subject:

<<GR, which is certainly more appropriate for symphonic playing>>

Using good trumpet ears out front, compare density of focus, richness of sound, evenness of timbre, and most importantly intonation to an SC4 or SC8. Also, compare projection as well as ease in all registers. Let us know what your ears are heaing.

Best regards, Kyle

tptguy · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:59 am Post subject:

<<the conductor (a very fine trumpet player btw) has .... not asked me to change my mouthpiece or adjust my sound in any other way.>>

You are lucky. In my experience, conductors who don't know what mouthpiece you are playing will be especially pleased with the sound, projection, and intonation of an SC6 or SC4. But if if the conductor is traditionally trained "by the numbers" then they'll offer a suggestion "by the numbers". If you leave the evaluation exclusively to good ears they'll typically get it "more right". For this reason, I've generally found it better to have a clarinetist or violinist out front. But if you have an especially rigid trumpet player out front then save yourself a lot of strain and just say you are playing a Bach 1 1/2 C.

Best to all, Kyle

trumpetplanet · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject:

crzytptman · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:39 pm Post subject:

trumpetplanet · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:01 am Post subject:

Crazy Nate strikes again huh?

My thoughts on the matter are based purely on experience of playing in the UK, so I accept that it's probably different in other parts of the world.
It is quite normal here for classical players to reach for the smaller trumpets once music starts to head above the staff. Obviously their explanation for this is that you have benefit from using the valves in a lower harmonic and it maintains the focus of your sound. Since learning the Superchops way I have come to realise that this is a poor excuse for having no control in the upper register, both in terms of technic and tone.
I would far rather use a smaller mouthpiece and maintain the benefit of having a full and richer overtone series on a B-flat trumpet than need to switch instrument because my tone lacks focus and my embouchure lacks strength.

I also wish to contest that the trumpet should have a bright sound because it's job is to fulfil the soprano voice in the family of instruments. It is not supposed to have a dull and blended, dark and spread tone - leave that crap to the 3rd cornet players in a brass band.
_________________
UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.

https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/

crzytptman · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:32 am Post subject:

Strikes? All I did was ask Kyle a couple of questions, for clarity of his statements.

Thank you for posting your experience. That's a very interesting insight.
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crzytptman · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:49 am Post subject:

Whenever I read articles, books, watch documentaries or other presentations, an important tool for assessing the truth of statements is to check sources. So if the author/presenter makes a claim or references a situation that occurred or quotes someone, the validity of that claim or reference rests on the author/presenter's ability to produce or reproduce.

I'm always excited to learn new things.
_________________
Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)

tptguy · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:14 am Post subject:

TPlanet, Jerry sent me the final SC8 prototype about 6 weeks ago. My primary piece is an SC3 as it works best for me for the majority of work that I do: jazz combo, big band, latin, R&B, and blues. The SC3 has been especially suitable this summer as I've been playing more unmic'd outdoor gigs than usual. Regardless, I found the SC8 very easy to get accustomed to. To me, it doesn't feel much different than an SC4. But, it clearly gives me the wider and less pointed orchestral sound that many players are looking for while still retaining the ease, power, and excellent intonation of the SC3 and SC4. And as the cup diameter is similar to a Bach 1 1/2, it should be an easy transition for the very large number of trumpeters already accustomed to this width.

Some background - Jerry first started work on a bigger yet well balanced symphonic mouthpiece about 3 years ago. Clement Saunier, from the Paris Conservatory and Trombamania, wanted such a piece for the orchestral work he does apart from Trombamania. However, all the early attempts proved very frustrating. The best one was produced in very limited quantity and named the SC5. But Jerry was entirely unhappy with the result so I recommended he take a break. About 6 months ago, I suggested to Jerry that he restart the enterprise with a clear head and all the added feedback we now had from the highly successful SC4, SC6, and SC3 designs. Jerry changed gears and worked on a wider rather than deeper cup. The SC8 finally achieved the fully balanced sound and ease of play that he has worked towards for several decades. I believe it's fair to say that the SC8 is the very first true symphonic mouthpiece that Jerry is fully satisfied with.

Best regards, Kyle

markchuvala · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 640

How is Jerry making these pieces with out a lathe?

Mailing stuff back and forth from CA HAS to be tedious. You'd think somebody in NYC could help him and make an 8 month process, a little quicker.

And I AM glad to see that Jerry has concluded that the one size fits all mentality is not functional or logical.

I wish Jerry had a lathe at his place, and was doing custom work again, and making new creations. He had some just amazing pieces he was making in the 90s that my current pieces are designed after.

Mark

trumpetplanet · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject:

Hey Kyle,

Thanks very much for the full story. I also particularly like your choice of words: "wider and less pointed orchestral sound that many players are looking for". I do very much like my SC4 and my SC3 but I worry about certain pro-orchestral players I know ever hearing me play with them simply because they have such a dated philosophy about tone.

I wholeheartedly believe in Superchops; proven by the fact that every time I start thinking about playing in a more traditional way - be it technique OR mouthpiece choice - my playing ability, both technical control and range, start to diminish dramatically within a matter of days; but 99% of trumpet players out there know nothing about it and most of the remaining 1% don't have the balls to give it a try. I really fear that I could potentially lose any big opportunities that come my way because of other people not understanding my technique or equipment choice. This alone is probably reason enough to try an SC8.

It may well be time to eBay some of my older mouthpieces I have lying around....

_________________
UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.

https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/

crzytptman · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:26 am Post subject:

veery715 · Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: