50's committees. are they THE! jazz horn or just old??

[saxophonist56]

do modern trumpets run circles around them. or do i really want to buy a vintage committee. some say they don't intonate well and valves are problems. since i can't find any to play, does anyone care to educate me on this subject. i'm guessing part of the appeal has to do with miles.

[jojocat]

Dear saxophonist 56,

a few years ago I just like you had the irresistible to get a vintage Committee, cause in my inconscious, my ego wanted to belong to the great family of legendary jazzmen who played a Committee. I wanted to get a part of the talent of Miles, Chet, Lee and all that icons.

So, I sold a horn that I now regret, a marvellous Xeno 8335 in mint condition to get a beaten Committe. I spent much $$ to get the horn in a playable condition.


Oh, yes, the horn has a particular tone, has loosy slot, debatable intonation. Then, after playing a couple of months, the conclusion came in the form of a
famous jazz standard originaly played on a ......MC !!!! So what?? was the conclusion. Some folks won't agree what will follow, but I got a playing style very close to the MC with a $300 Buescher or a $600 Selmer Paris.

My advice is this one: if you have plenty of bucks to spend on a vintage MC, then go for it man! But if not, you can get for the same money one of the horns I told, some private lessons, jazz books, jaz records, tickets for shows...

Up to you !!!

Just my 2 cents.
_________________
The least we can do is wave to each other

Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781

[zackh411]

[Retlaw]

I have had two very good Committees... medium and large bore both deluxe. I sold them because I didn't sound like Chet. What I am saying is if you sound like Chet it won't be because of the horn. Committees are cool but I will give you a thought. I recently played a Committee next to a Lawler C7 and those listening said I sounded better on the Lawler. Something of the Committee sound was there but it was (in my opinion ) better.......for me. Having a Lawler with new Getzen valves and modern build for me is better than having a horn with possibly worn valves and braces that have been moved around several times....they are vulnerable. Cost is probably going to be very similar if you are looking for a Committee in good condition.Don't get me wrong I love Committees and they do have a unique sound but they suit some .. not everyone.

Walter
_________________
"Amazing how many people listen with their eyes."
"Life is short....play nice."

[kristiner]

Tricky subject.

You'll get a lot of "great but not perfect..." responses, which is the case with most instruments, particularly vintage instruments. We all know the classic sound, and there are certainly guys today who use vintage Committees effectively in a modern context, so it isn't a matter of the horn not working as well as a modern trumpet. But the Committee has some very unique characteristics, and that either works for you or it doesn't.

I've played a few very nice #2 and #3 bore Committees, and a few that were less than great. After a looong search, I settled on a nice late 50s medium bore that was my main horn for over a year. Intonation was fantastic, certainly less quirky than any of the modern Bachs I'd been playing to that point. The valves needed some work, but they mostly felt nice. It did have a few spots in the scale where I had to fight to avoid little distortions and cross-vibrations, which I assume are characteristics of the light bracing and heavy brass.

But the sound was everything you'd want from a Martin Committee: thick, soulful, buttery, effortless. All of those sound characteristics held together no matter how I was feeling - warmed up or not, fresh chops or dead tired. That sound consistency was both a blessing and a curse, because (in my experience) a Martin plays soulfully and yes, MAGICALLY... IF you go where it wants, do what it wants to do. But it's not a do-it-all instrument. It tends to box you in to a certain range of expression. If you push away from that, it resists your effort. That can frustrating after awhile if you need to be a versatile player. It's ideal for a small room, or a reverberant space, or a recording studio - basically "up close" situations. But in a situation where you have to really project without a mic, or get a more focused and cutting sound, or a big resonant "classical" sound, good luck. Some of that can be solved with a mouthpiece change (I tried way too many) but not completely. There is a reason these horns have a reputation associated with small group jazz, because that is where they excel. But they can be a bit clumsy to fit into other situations.

Again, this is just my experience. My background is primarily jazz and improvised music, and Miles is very important to me, but I also do a lot of work in other genres. I like having one Bb to do most everything on, and the Martin just didn't cut it 100% of the time. Once I started exploring modern trumpets based on the Martin design and feel, particularly the Schilke B series, I realized something like that was going to work much better. My B5 can do the dark, smokey, lyrical Committee thing but can also project and cut and take on a lot of other sound characteristics when I need them. Everything is available but it doesn't seem to impose a personality on the player. It's very transparent, fantastic improviser's horn, and a better solution for me. Either you play the horn or the horn plays you, right?

By all means check out as many vintage horns that you can, it's important to become aware of the different sound possibilities and approaches that are in the tradition. And it's quite an education, if you are interested in the great Committee lineage and have the opportunity, to play one for awhile and learn about how the sound on those classic recordings was produced. But don't make it about the hype, because with so many great options available these days, and versatility more important than ever, you still have to find something that is going to be the right tool for the job.
_________________
Kris Tiner
Professor of Music, Director of Jazz Studies
Bakersfield College
http://kristiner.com

[aopga]

I had a Deluxe for a while but I still sounded more like me than Chris Botti. The slots are loose but I found that made it easier to play in tune on typically pitchy notes. Not as dark as I expected. My Olds Recording is more mellow but my early Selmer Paris gives me the small combo "Committee" sound I like for that stuff.

[jojocat]

[Brent]

I would second the advice of getting a Lawler C7, Adams A9, or the Schilke Handcraft. Those vintage Committees are 70-80 years old.

The Lawler C7 I have plays beautifully. You get the Committee sound, and the intonation is the best of any horn I've had. Show me a vintage Committee that can match those Getzen valves, to boot. Finally, if you want a horn that slots a little more loosely, Roy Lawler can do that.
_________________
Brent

[J. Crowley]

I've been playing a C7-4 for almost 3 years now(I think), absolutely love it. In fact, I love my C7 so much I got a second one, a C7-3 with a really elaborate engraving on the entire horn..designed after the horn Miles played in '55. You can see it on my instagram page: http://instagram.com/joncrowleymusic
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http://www.JonCrowleyMusic.com
http://www.brooklyntrumpetlessons.com

[aopga]

Yes, vintage Grand Prix

[PakWaan]

Kevin Dean might have something to say about that.....


Link

_________________
Taylor Chicago Standard • Getzen 900 Eterna Classic • Yamaha 731 flugelhorn
--- Sold everything else ---

[mcgovnor]

I owned a bunch of them..all medium bore in the 150xxx- 190xxx serial number range..the best was the oldest..a pre war..it had a similar center and sound to the horn in the video posted on this thread. I used it for 3 or 4 years playing small group commercial jazz gigs. I loved it. Needed a Bach mp..like a 3c. Played some show lead on it as well..but I felt it was always a be bop horn. It was restrictive, which can be good for guys who want to play a lot of notes all over the horn..you have to cut back and choose. But for all around work it didn't work for me in the long run...It does have one sound..and that is a sound I equate with playing tunes, alone, and be bop..

[aopga]

You win!

[shmo_joe]

if you are looking for new instrument
you can by Adams A9
they are the best committee copies so far
they play a little bit more open
they feel like "improved" vintage committees

regards,

Alex

[Brent]

I've always dug that Kevin Dean, Committee clip.

That being said, you can check him out playing all sorts of vintage horns on his web site. He sounds awesome on anything, and he sounds like him.
_________________
Brent

[chuck in ny]

i haven't played a committee yet but have a decided preference for new manufacture ultra high quality product, no valve job necessary.
there have been some perceptive observations on this thread. there are many trumpets that are bright and unsuited for chet baker playing. it still leaves you with a good list of instruments that will play dark and also bright depending on approach.
what we have with the trumpet specifically as a brass instrument is vast freedom in sound coloration. you're not going to get that on your clarinet. there is great advantage to having the mouthpiece and trumpet designed for maximum flexibility and there is great personal satisfaction in being able to have that flexibility in your sound.
when i play it's in a chet baker mode for ballads and such. most of my playing is practice. flexibilities are played with the trumpet in a fanfare mode, and etudes don't demand to be played with great emotionality. you can't be in that committee mode all the time and have to appreciate the other tonal range that's available, if only for ear training.

[jojocat]

Hey guys, can you help me to find a horn that will make me sound like Freddie?
_________________
The least we can do is wave to each other

Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781

[veery715]

[jojocat]

[intrepidpooch]