Tongue level and speaking

[x9ret]

Hi there. Has anyone researched a link between the ease some people get high notes with the way they speak, such as their accent etc?

It's a link I'm curious of. I'm guessing if someone talks with their tongue moving up and down more than others then I imagine they would be better prepared for high range, than someone who's accent or way they talk means their tongue doesn't move like that every day?
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[kalijah]

You are making the assumption that the tongue level alone has a dominant and direct effect on the pitch played. It doesnt. The embouchure does. And the range of tongue levels used while playing is dependent on the style of embouchure a player uses. In other words, dont be concerned about it.

I have noticed that those whose language is more articulate and rapid seem to have better articulation ability with tonguing and multiple tounguing.

[MFaddicted]

Unfortunately I have a very slight LISP...my tongue is too damn big for my mouth, but guess what?
I can compress air...very very efficiently and fast...which is part of upper register proficiency.

[CJeter]

Definitely never noticed any connection like that. I've never even thought about that haha, but it sounds like someones dissertation topic that will collect dust in a library for years.

[deleted_user_02066fd]

Jerry Callet played me a recording during a lesson of a former student who had a very pronounced lisp. This guy had chops like Faddis. According to Jerome the guy went to college and the first thing his trumpet teacher had him do was tongue behind his top teeth instead of through his teeth. As the story goes he lost a lot of his range and regained it by returning to his old method of tonguing between his teeth. Apparently he was primarily self taught and just naturally tongued between his teeth and spoke the same way.
At the time Jerry taught students to stick the tongue between the teeth and anchor it to the bottom lip. I don't really know if he still uses this exact approach. I had a speech therapist once tell me I had a slight lisp that was caused by speaking with my tongue sticking through my teeth. I naturally tongued between my teeth as a beginner and had an easy high c as a 6-7th grader.
I never thought much about how to use the tongue and how to play above the staff, I just did it instinctively. A teacher corrected my using the tongue this way and I lost a few steps of my useful range. When I went back to my former way of using the tongue I got those notes back. I was able to create the compression I needed this way. It worked for me, it obviously doesn't work for everyone.
The speech therapist told me to speak with the tongue behind my top teeth also. I never bothered to try to change the way I speak as the lisp was very slight and most people don't even notice it.

[nyctrumpeter]

[John Mohan]

While there was no formal study done, Claude Gordon noticed anecdotally that people who spoke the Romantic Languages seemed to have an easier time getting the feel of the upper register which correlated with the more tongue-forward position of many of their vowel sounds. Note that when Arban directed in his book for a student to articulate notes with a "Tu" syllable, he was not referring to the English sound of "to" - he meant the French pronunciation, "tew" with the tongue arched more up and in particular, forward in the mouth.

In addition, Romantic language speakers tend to be more likely to naturally tongue in the method he called K-Modified Tonguing (what other refer to as dorsal tonguing), keeping the tip of the tongue in the area just behind the front bottom teeth and articulating the notes with the front middle portion of the tongue against the top teeth or against the area just behind the top teeth. This way of tonguing is practically mandatory if one wants to develop virtuosic levels of tonguing speed, range and accuracy.

Claude also noticed that there seemed to be more difficulties with German-speaking students in regard to upper register development and in particular, choking off the air by incorrectly raising the back area of the tongue upward in an "ich" fashion when attempting to reach the upper register. I noticed this as well during the six years I lived, played and taught in Germany.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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[crzytptman]

I recently watched a masterclass on youtube given by Vince DiMartino. He described Arban's "tu" as the sound of the wind, not a vocalization. He was shaping the mouth, putting the tongue in position and expelling "tu" without vocalizing. Definitely worth watching.
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[nyctrumpeter]

[nyctrumpeter]