All about the gap

[feedback@stomvi-usa]

We just launched a new website with a new comprehensive gap page. This page contains in-depth information, videos and charts. It answers a host of questions about mouthpiece gap.

http://stomvi-usa.com/learn-about-the-annulus-gap/
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[nvidal]

Stomvi, I don't mean to be argumentative for arguments sake, but I think the gap is nothing but pure placebo like nonsense which is, even though intangible in nature, is still valid.

But without making this any sort of public challenge (please pm me if you wish it to be so), to me the Math doesn't work out. You blow the right way, the gap is totally inconsequential, which is my opinion, TOTALLY based on both sound and physical concepts I can demonstrate in person.

I'm open minded but I don't feel it when I play with a nice musical big sound.

Am I off my rockers here? Maybe. Can anyone guide me to the pure math behind the claim that the Gap works?

Btw, the "math" I am referring to is Gabriel's Horn/Torricelli's trumpet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel's_Horn
When you pop the mouthpiece with your hand, and do it really hard, the excitation of such a small "amount of air", the amount of potential sound generated is incredible, the harder you hit it. Said another way, I'm saying you need to have someone who can "blow" in such a way that the "tongue/lever" is not at all the tongue, but is rather the Trachea, JUST LIKE SINGING. This phenomenon was discussed by Reynold Schilke in that he mentioned the standing wave reached the trachea/back of throat.

And my solution is NOT math/written based. As you would guess, it is based on Sound.

Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you.

In short: Mouthpiece gap matters = myth

[oxleyk]

Oh, this should be interesting.

Speaking from experience, and others will also, the right gap DOES make a difference. Maybe you should try a mouthpiece that is cut for sleeves and see for yourself before making such comments.

For me, having the right gap gives a much more open and resonant tone. Attacks and articulations are more secure at any volume. Slots are easier to hit and tuning individual notes is much easier.

And this is on a trumpet with a flush leadpipe so there actually is no gap. The insertion depth makes a difference.

Kent

[cheiden]

I've just started playing with my first sleeved mouthpiece. I bought a big set of sleeves numbered from 1 to 7 in 0.5 increments. I can already say with my relatively small amount of experimenting that it's pretty easy to tell that the various gaps affect how the horn blows and sounds.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Louise Finch]

[homebilly]

I say potato, you say coupler.

i read the new page but feel a bit uneasy not seeing bob's name in the list...

after all.........

just sayin'
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ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
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[Steve A]

[crzytptman]

[TrpPro]

Gapping the mouthpiece worked for me like nothing else.

[MacMichael]

Seeminglythere is only one possible answer to the gap question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ojomTUt0X4

But, as one person commented on this video, there were 31 people who did NOT mind the gap. Sheesh!

Well, they were not harmed, they seemed to carry on. So what now?

[Geodude]

Nvidal: when an opportunity presents itself, test drive a Courtois with the adjustable receiver. I think it would cause you to revisit your position.

A number of years ago my son who had been playing for only a year or so demo'd a Courtois Evolution IV. Even though he was only 10 or 11, he could feel the difference in gap adjustments and everyone listening could clearly hear distinct differences. He had no expectation of what a gap change might do; he was just happy to have the opportunity to play something way nicer than the starter cornet he had at the time. It wasn't voodoo or a placebo, clearly adjusting the gap changed what he felt on his end and what we heard on the other.

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all,
For me, if there is a ridge at the venturi, then gap is important for certain pitches. I just bought a horn and the receiver was set at 1/2 inch plus. The horn did not have much magic. Had the receiver adjusted, about 1/8 inch....Magic happens. Please notice, I did mention ridge at the venturi...My Schilke pic and Eb cornet, which have adjustable leadpipes, are fine with no gap, as is my Olds Special which is receiverless.
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Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[feedback@stomvi-usa]

[Bluesy]

Boy oh boy! Does gap ever make a difference!!!
I mean, it really does! Before I re-gapped my yammy my sound was flat and dull. But NOW!!
I mean, it's really . . .eh . . . uh . . . not the same. It's . . . . altogether, well . . . better.
How?
The sound is . . .eh, well, LISTEN! I used a toothpick to measure the gap length inside the receiver and marked the toothpick with a pencil. Then I laid the toothpick along the mouthpiece and discovered the difference.
Wow! what a difference.
I'll tell you one thing . . . What? What was the actual difference?
It was better. I mean really better. My upper registers, my, well, lower notes . . . . the ease of blowing, octaves, diminished . . . holding notes, the metronome was . . .

Bluesy/
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Finally Beiderbecke took out a silver cornet. He put it to his lips and blew a phrase. The sound came out like a girl saying ‘yes.’. . . . .Eddie Condon/

[lipshurt]

well that is a weird post....

gap does make a dif of course, but I'm not convinced that Lip intrusion is the factor that determines the best gap. The conn patent that talks about gap does not mention lip intrusion, and the graph in the video above seems not quite right to me also.

I guess my problem with the lip intrusion explanation is that if it were true, then a deep mouthpiece used by a player with tons of intrusion would map out the same (or vaguely similar) as a shallow piece with little intrusion. And they don't map the same way. At least that is my experience.

Plus, every player goes from little intrusion to way more intrusion when they go up high and loud. One way to see how much intrusion is to put the piece on ice for a few seconds and then dry it off. Play it a few seconds and look inside. You can see how far the lips go in, by looking at the line of condensation..

Gap is at least partially determined by the diameter and shape of the gap chamber, in other words, the thicknesses of the edges of the pipe and the end of the stem, and the bevel or lack of beveling in those places, and also the venturi size etc.
The GR gap formula tales those things into consideration.
Another thing is simply how wild or controlled a player likes a horn to be. So then things like valve fitment would have an effect on optimum gap size.
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Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
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[razeontherock]

[Bluesy]

Quote: "well that is a weird post.... "

Would you believe 'humorous'?
_________________
Finally Beiderbecke took out a silver cornet. He put it to his lips and blew a phrase. The sound came out like a girl saying ‘yes.’. . . . .Eddie Condon/

[nvidal]

[nvidal]

[nvidal]