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JayVel37 New Member
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 9
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: Performance vs. Music Ed |
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Hi. I'm pretty new to trumpet herald, so I wouldn't know if this is the right section to ask this question(sorry). But I was wondering what is the difference between majoring in performance vs. Music education. Does one give you more job/gig opportunities? Thank you. |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the Trumpet Herald!
Your playing/performance opportunities will be afforded you according to how good of a player you are. Whether your music degree is a performance or educational degree will have little or no consequence. With a performance degree you will not be able to be hired by most if not all formal educational programs. With an educational degree you will be hire-able (and if you're good enough, you'll also get gigs - even full time ones if you want).
I suggest you get an Undergraduate Degree in Music Education and then go on to a Graduate Degree in Performance where you can really hone your skills as a player (and you'll have four more years of playing development under your belt and therefore be able to reap more benefit from studying with a top-level teacher and program).
Cheers,
John Mohan _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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brass crusader Regular Member
Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Posts: 53 Location: New England
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Well, an Ed degree will allow you to get a teaching job. As far as a Performance degree, it's a fancy piece of paper (Which I have). There is no difference in getting a gig. No one is going to turn you down from a gig because you're not a performance major. You will not be eligible for a lot of teaching jobs without an Ed degree, on the other hand.
Some schools have different program requirements. Some have double degree programs. I chose a double degree program, wanting the best of both worlds. It worked out well, but I sure am glad that I chose an Education degree, not only from the employment aspect, but also in the aspect that teaching is an immensely rewarding profession.
Bottom line: In my opinion, there is nothing you can do with a Performance Degree that you can't do with an Ed degree. There are a lot of things you can't do with a Performance degree, but can do with an Ed degree. |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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The main difference between a music ed. degree and
a performance degree while you are attending school,
is that a music ed degree, will of course require that you take some
education courses that are not required for a performance degree.
A performance degree requires more emphasis on... performing.
For example a typical music ed degree only requires a senior recital,
and a performance degree usually requires a junior recital and a senior recital. Also you might be required to perform in more ensembles,
brass quintet, brass choir, orchestra, chamber orchestra, jazz ensemble, wind ensemble and so on.
If you get just a performance degree, you are making the statement that you do not want to teach, which is perfectly fine if that's the direction you want to go. But simply having a performance degree, will not get you any gigs. Your talent and your ability and experience on the instrument will get you work.
In my opinion, a performance degree is useless. |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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I can't tell you the number of people I have known over the years
that have gone back to school to get a teaching certificate.
A performance degree will not guarantee you a job in an orchestra,
or any other professional ensemble for that matter.
It will not guarantee you a job teaching trumpet at the
university level either.
On the other side of the coin, getting a music ed.
degree does not preclude you from being a very fine player.
One thing that is pretty certain in this day in age, is the fact that if
you intend to make a career in music, at some point along the way in your career it's very likely that you will be doing some teaching.
Last edited by homecookin on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JayVel37 New Member
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 9
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for all the amazing responses, but would you still be eligible for teaching if you do a performance major for undergrad, and Ed for Masters? |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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You can teach in private schools without an education certificate.
But to teach in public schools in most states you have to have a teaching certificate, whether you get it at the Masters level or at the Bachelor's level. |
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ohiotpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 988
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Out of curiosity, have you done a course by course comparison in regards
to what classes you would be taking with each option?
Could this be potentially a "double" concentration where by taking performance courses for electives in the education branch you find yourself with the same lip on horn time, along with a teaching degree for future employment opportunities.
For those who did go up the education route, did you find that some of the training crossed over into improving your playing? Perhaps learning how to teach helped you fine tune your own playing? _________________ -fred
Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by. |
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myreligion Regular Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Statesville
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Like what many others have said, I recommend you make the education degree the primary degree. Where I attend, an ed. degree is only a few extra classes more than the performance degree, and then of course a semester of student teaching. I know I will not teach immediately after I graduate, but at least it is always an option for when/if I have a change of heart. Ed. classes really aren't very difficult either. I still practice/perform as much as I would be if I was only a performance major. Get them both is my recommendation. |
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myreligion Regular Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 37 Location: Statesville
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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ohiotpt wrote: | Out of curiosity, have you done a course by course comparison in regards
to what classes you would be taking with each option?
Could this be potentially a "double" concentration where by taking performance courses for electives in the education branch you find yourself with the same lip on horn time, along with a teaching degree for future employment opportunities.
For those who did go up the education route, did you find that some of the training crossed over into improving your playing? Perhaps learning how to teach helped you fine tune your own playing? |
Not so much cross over, at least not at my institute. The ed. material is very generalized and directed towards 6-12th grade ensembles (and elementary music) and beginner issues, not advanced individual player characteristics. I suppose the trumpet pedagogy class touched on it a bit, but it was nowhere near as prominent as what was discussed in private lessons. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8336 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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homecookin wrote: | You can teach in private schools without an education certificate.
But to teach in public schools in most states you have to have a teaching certificate, whether you get it at the Masters level or at the Bachelor's level. |
The private schools in my area also require a teaching certificate and license. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1532 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:52 pm Post subject: performanve vs Ed degree |
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Hello all,
Here is my take...If you have a lot of natural talent, are creative and don't mind taking risks, you will do well with just a performance degree. If you are a good to wonderful player and like to eat and have a family life, you really should consider sharing your talents and creating a legacy as a teacher. I think it is easier to work for somebody else that has benefits and gives you a steady salary. You might be trading off creativity or some freedom, but the rewards can be high. Sure, my first teaching salary was less or the same as I was earning at the grocery store, but I did advance more and faster on the salary schedule than I would have doing much else. And I still got to gig on evenings and weekends.
I know too many people that have to cobble a lot of gigs/lessons/opportunities just to make ends meet...And they don't have benefits and retirement plans. Me? Seven years in grocery, thirty years teaching, three years and counting in music retail... _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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musicman0097 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2012 Posts: 601 Location: SF Bay Area, California
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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I will be starting my first year of college next year. I've been thinking and doing the same type research and questioning. Personally, I just don't see what a Performance Degree will give you in comparison to an education degree. I have other friends who are going through the same thing right now.
Matthew _________________ Matthew Porter
"There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, learning from failure"- Colin Powell |
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jiarby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 1188
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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If you can play you don't need a performance degree.
If you want to be able to teach Elementary, Jr. High, or High School, then you definitely need a teaching certificate. And the ability to pass a background check to get your fingerprint card.
If you want to teach at a Jr. College as an adjunct, at a big league 4yr school then the requirements can be more flexible... but in almost every case you need a degree of some flavor, and the higher the better (Masters/PhD)
If you decide to get a performance degree I suggest hanging out in the lobby of the nursing building so you can have a chance at marrying a chick that can get a job... and has a nurturing personality.
Last edited by jiarby on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rockford Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2477 Location: Northern VA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | Welcome to the Trumpet Herald!
Your playing/performance opportunities will be afforded you according to how good of a player you are. Whether your music degree is a performance or educational degree will have little or no consequence. With a performance degree you will not be able to be hired by most if not all formal educational programs. With an educational degree you will be hire-able (and if you're good enough, you'll also get gigs - even full time ones if you want).
I suggest you get an Undergraduate Degree in Music Education and then go on to a Graduate Degree in Performance where you can really hone your skills as a player (and you'll have four more years of playing development under your belt and therefore be able to reap more benefit from studying with a top-level teacher and program).
Cheers,
John Mohan | I'll second this post as an excellent strategy. If you really have no interest in teaching, attending college can be a good way to develop your playing until you're ready to move to NY, LA, Nashville or wherever to make it as a player. Lots of well known player's bios say "attended" University X rather than graduated from. (Wynton and Miles-Juillard, Lots of LA studio players-IU etc.) Ultimately it's what comes out of the bell that counts. How you get there is more a matter of private study and pre-professional playing experience. College is a good place to get both but not the only place. Good luck. _________________ Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2333 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:43 am Post subject: |
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+1 for John Mohan's suggestion.
a stronger background, more options later in life.. you never know where you'll end up.
best of luck! _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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jadickson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Please don't go into teaching for the money. If you don't want to teach, then don't. |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10204 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Another vote for John Mohan's wise advice. In my experience, fortune favors the prepared. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:28 am Post subject: |
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homecookin wrote: | I can't tell you the number of people I have known over the years
that have gone back to school to get a teaching certificate.
A performance degree will not guarantee you a job in an orchestra,
or any other professional ensemble for that matter.
It will not guarantee you a job teaching trumpet at the
university level either.
On the other side of the coin, getting a music ed.
degree does not preclude you from being a very fine player.
One thing that is pretty certain in this day in age, is the fact that if
you intend to make a career in music, at some point along the way in your career it's very likely that you will be doing some teaching. |
Count me among those who went back for the Ed. credential. I did have GI Bill to pay for it. A trombone player I went to school with was an anthropology major. He played extra with the Minnesota orchestra and went on to play lead with Buddy Rich and ended up in the Tonight Show band with Doc. Nobody asked about his degree. An ed degree qualifies you to teach, a performance degree qualifies you to go for a masters degree. That's about it. |
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jscahoy Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 415
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Music ed, even if you're okay with the idea, isn't the guaranteed fallback it used to be. Maybe it's just my area, but I know recent grads who have been looking for jobs for years. And they really want to teach. If you want a backup plan, major in nursing, and then spend every spare minute in the music building. |
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