Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1070 Location: The Golden City of OZ
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject:
Emilio,
With the Wick, you'd be pretty safe in going for the 4 or 4B, as they are the classic brass band sizes.
What you need for the proper Brass Band sound is a pretty deep mpc. - have a look at the Wicks in your local store and see how deep the cup is - try and go for a rim size you are comfortable with, but with that deep cup - it will help you with your sound.
You will find after a time, esp. if you move up to the solo line, that your endurance is notably better - a two hour rehearsal on rep or solo is a real workout. You'll still need to work on your high range on the trumpet, but you'll find you have more stamina to do so.
Brass Band parts rarely go higher than top C in my experience anyway.
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:45 am Post subject:
EmilioBC wrote:
p76 wrote:
Emilio,
The advice given here is spot on, and you're going down the right path - you might find you struggle with the shape of the Wick rim (I do) - if so, the Curry BBC line is a fine alternative, and with a rim that is more similar to Bach products.
You'll still find the upper register harder work than on a trumpet, but the tuning should be better with a non-Bach mpc. Some of the tuning issues come down to the players (I'm always sharp on the top of the stave G on the cornet), so you might need to work with your colleagues to ensure you blend.
Welcome to the Brass Banding fraternity - once you're in, you're hooked!
Cheers,
Roger
I actually might not go with the Wick, they seem to have a limited selection of sizes at the store I go to. They have other companies, but they don't carry Curry. The 3BBC sounds so good, but should I really purchase something untested? It sounds risky to me.
And if the cornet high range is harder, would that help my trumpet range improve?
Hi
I really do believe that a Denis Wick mouthpiece would be one of the better choices on a Besson 927 Sovereign cornet.
I'm not sure what cup diameter you use on trumpet, but if it is around the Bach 3C which you are currently playing on cornet, I would say that a 4B or 3B should be a good choice initally, with you maybe switching to a 4 or 3 once you have become a bit more used to cornet and Brass Band cornet mouthpieces. A switch from a Bach 3C to a deep no letter cup Denis Wick may be a bit too much in one go (A no letter cup Denis Wick has a cup deeper than a Bach flugel mouthpiece cup), especially with you also being new to cornet and in your band.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9343 Location: Heart of Dixie
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:51 am Post subject:
Louise Finch wrote:
...I really do believe that a Denis Wick mouthpiece would be one of the better choices on a Besson 927 Sovereign cornet.
I'm not sure what cup diameter you use on trumpet, but if it is around the Bach 3C which you are currently playing on cornet, I would say that a 4B or 3B should be a good choice initally, with you maybe switching to a 4 or 3 once you have become a bit more used to cornet and Brass Band cornet mouthpieces. A switch from a Bach 3C to a deep no letter cup Denis Wick may be a bit too much in one go (A no letter cup Denis Wick has a cup deeper than a Bach flugel mouthpiece cup), especially with you also being new to cornet and in your band...
This is good advice! _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham
Joined: 04 Oct 2014 Posts: 13 Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject:
Louise Finch wrote:
EmilioBC wrote:
p76 wrote:
Emilio,
The advice given here is spot on, and you're going down the right path - you might find you struggle with the shape of the Wick rim (I do) - if so, the Curry BBC line is a fine alternative, and with a rim that is more similar to Bach products.
You'll still find the upper register harder work than on a trumpet, but the tuning should be better with a non-Bach mpc. Some of the tuning issues come down to the players (I'm always sharp on the top of the stave G on the cornet), so you might need to work with your colleagues to ensure you blend.
Welcome to the Brass Banding fraternity - once you're in, you're hooked!
Cheers,
Roger
I actually might not go with the Wick, they seem to have a limited selection of sizes at the store I go to. They have other companies, but they don't carry Curry. The 3BBC sounds so good, but should I really purchase something untested? It sounds risky to me.
And if the cornet high range is harder, would that help my trumpet range improve?
Hi
I really do believe that a Denis Wick mouthpiece would be one of the better choices on a Besson 927 Sovereign cornet.
I'm not sure what cup diameter you use on trumpet, but if it is around the Bach 3C which you are currently playing on cornet, I would say that a 4B or 3B should be a good choice initally, with you maybe switching to a 4 or 3 once you have become a bit more used to cornet and Brass Band cornet mouthpieces. A switch from a Bach 3C to a deep no letter cup Denis Wick may be a bit too much in one go (A no letter cup Denis Wick has a cup deeper than a Bach flugel mouthpiece cup), especially with you also being new to cornet and in your band.
Take Care
Lou
I am leaning toward the 4B or 4BW over the 3's. The Wick site says the 3 has a brighter and more soloistic sound, which is not what I am aiming for I don't think. I just hope they carry those or I can order one quickly.
I am actually so excited to play cornet with the new mouthpiece, it has been such a battle so far. What are the chances that I would get the only Besson that the band even owns! _________________ Emilio B.C.
York University '14-'19
Hannaford Youth '14-'15
Blue Saints Drum and Bugle Corps '15
Yamaha 6335HSII 301xxx + Warburton 3MD/B8
Bach Strad CL w/229 & 25A, 265xxx
Yamaha YCR 8335 cornet + Bach 3C
King 1121 Mellophone + King Mello 6
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:28 am Post subject:
EmilioBC wrote:
I am leaning toward the 4B or 4BW over the 3's. The Wick site says the 3 has a brighter and more soloistic sound, which is not what I am aiming for I don't think. I just hope they carry those or I can order one quickly.
I am actually so excited to play cornet with the new mouthpiece, it has been such a battle so far. What are the chances that I would get the only Besson that the band even owns!
I'm not sure what whoever wrote the blurb on the website was getting at there. The 3's and 4's are very similar in design apart from cup diameter. I'm not convinced it's possible to make useful generalisations about the difference in sound between them - IMO it really comes down to which is a better fit for the player. What mouthpiece do you use on trumpet?
I am leaning toward the 4B or 4BW over the 3's. The Wick site says the 3 has a brighter and more soloistic sound, which is not what I am aiming for I don't think. I just hope they carry those or I can order one quickly.
I am actually so excited to play cornet with the new mouthpiece, it has been such a battle so far. What are the chances that I would get the only Besson that the band even owns!
I would not read too much in to the wick site explanations the 3B's are just a little wider in the inner diameter and are pretty similar to the 4B's they are not any brighter. I have a 2B, 3B, 3B heritage, 4B, 4, 5B in my collection.
The bigger difference is between the B cup and no letter models.
I use the 4 (no letter) but its hard work (but amazing sound). I use the 4B or 3B H if i'm struggling. I would try the 4B (or 4B Heritage) as a good starting point.
Also a good idea to listen to some of the top cornet soloists such as this guy.....
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:36 am Post subject:
EmilioBC wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
EmilioBC wrote:
p76 wrote:
Emilio,
The advice given here is spot on, and you're going down the right path - you might find you struggle with the shape of the Wick rim (I do) - if so, the Curry BBC line is a fine alternative, and with a rim that is more similar to Bach products.
You'll still find the upper register harder work than on a trumpet, but the tuning should be better with a non-Bach mpc. Some of the tuning issues come down to the players (I'm always sharp on the top of the stave G on the cornet), so you might need to work with your colleagues to ensure you blend.
Welcome to the Brass Banding fraternity - once you're in, you're hooked!
Cheers,
Roger
I actually might not go with the Wick, they seem to have a limited selection of sizes at the store I go to. They have other companies, but they don't carry Curry. The 3BBC sounds so good, but should I really purchase something untested? It sounds risky to me.
And if the cornet high range is harder, would that help my trumpet range improve?
Hi
I really do believe that a Denis Wick mouthpiece would be one of the better choices on a Besson 927 Sovereign cornet.
I'm not sure what cup diameter you use on trumpet, but if it is around the Bach 3C which you are currently playing on cornet, I would say that a 4B or 3B should be a good choice initally, with you maybe switching to a 4 or 3 once you have become a bit more used to cornet and Brass Band cornet mouthpieces. A switch from a Bach 3C to a deep no letter cup Denis Wick may be a bit too much in one go (A no letter cup Denis Wick has a cup deeper than a Bach flugel mouthpiece cup), especially with you also being new to cornet and in your band.
Take Care
Lou
I am leaning toward the 4B or 4BW over the 3's. The Wick site says the 3 has a brighter and more soloistic sound, which is not what I am aiming for I don't think. I just hope they carry those or I can order one quickly.
I am actually so excited to play cornet with the new mouthpiece, it has been such a battle so far. What are the chances that I would get the only Besson that the band even owns!
Hi
I'm not sure what the Denis Wick says, but I wouldn't worry about the 3 having a brighter sound. It definitely will not have a brighter sound than a 4B or 4BW, as it has the much deeper no letter cup depth.
I also wouldn't worry about the 3B being brighter than the 4B. I am fairly sure that they have basically the same rim and same cup shape, and differ predominantly in terms of cup diameter.
In my opinion, it is the case of finding the best cup diameter for you. What mouthpiece do you use on trumpet?
Take Care
Lou
P.S. Sorry I have just read the rest of the replies, and have realised that I am only saying what has already been said. _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 04 Oct 2014 Posts: 13 Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:33 am Post subject:
Louise Finch wrote:
EmilioBC wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
EmilioBC wrote:
p76 wrote:
Emilio,
The advice given here is spot on, and you're going down the right path - you might find you struggle with the shape of the Wick rim (I do) - if so, the Curry BBC line is a fine alternative, and with a rim that is more similar to Bach products.
You'll still find the upper register harder work than on a trumpet, but the tuning should be better with a non-Bach mpc. Some of the tuning issues come down to the players (I'm always sharp on the top of the stave G on the cornet), so you might need to work with your colleagues to ensure you blend.
Welcome to the Brass Banding fraternity - once you're in, you're hooked!
Cheers,
Roger
I actually might not go with the Wick, they seem to have a limited selection of sizes at the store I go to. They have other companies, but they don't carry Curry. The 3BBC sounds so good, but should I really purchase something untested? It sounds risky to me.
And if the cornet high range is harder, would that help my trumpet range improve?
Hi
I really do believe that a Denis Wick mouthpiece would be one of the better choices on a Besson 927 Sovereign cornet.
I'm not sure what cup diameter you use on trumpet, but if it is around the Bach 3C which you are currently playing on cornet, I would say that a 4B or 3B should be a good choice initally, with you maybe switching to a 4 or 3 once you have become a bit more used to cornet and Brass Band cornet mouthpieces. A switch from a Bach 3C to a deep no letter cup Denis Wick may be a bit too much in one go (A no letter cup Denis Wick has a cup deeper than a Bach flugel mouthpiece cup), especially with you also being new to cornet and in your band.
Take Care
Lou
I am leaning toward the 4B or 4BW over the 3's. The Wick site says the 3 has a brighter and more soloistic sound, which is not what I am aiming for I don't think. I just hope they carry those or I can order one quickly.
I am actually so excited to play cornet with the new mouthpiece, it has been such a battle so far. What are the chances that I would get the only Besson that the band even owns!
Hi
I'm not sure what the Denis Wick says, but I wouldn't worry about the 3 having a brighter sound. It definitely will not have a brighter sound than a 4B or 4BW, as it has the much deeper no letter cup depth.
I also wouldn't worry about the 3B being brighter than the 4B. I am fairly sure that they have basically the same rim and same cup shape, and differ predominantly in terms of cup diameter.
In my opinion, it is the case of finding the best cup diameter for you. What mouthpiece do you use on trumpet?
Take Care
Lou
P.S. Sorry I have just read the rest of the replies, and have realised that I am only saying what has already been said.
I play on a Reeves 42C69 (the screw rim is actually stuck right now and so far nothing has worked to unscrew it).
The store I am going to tomorrow currently has one 4B on hold for me, thank you all so much for the advice! _________________ Emilio B.C.
York University '14-'19
Hannaford Youth '14-'15
Blue Saints Drum and Bugle Corps '15
Yamaha 6335HSII 301xxx + Warburton 3MD/B8
Bach Strad CL w/229 & 25A, 265xxx
Yamaha YCR 8335 cornet + Bach 3C
King 1121 Mellophone + King Mello 6
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:03 pm Post subject:
EmilioBC wrote:
I play on a Reeves 42C69 (the screw rim is actually stuck right now and so far nothing has worked to unscrew it).
The store I am going to tomorrow currently has one 4B on hold for me, thank you all so much for the advice!
Sorry, didn't spot the info in your signature. The 4B will feel much closer to a Reeves 42 than the 3/3B. Good luck!
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:27 am Post subject:
EmilioBC wrote:
I play on a Reeves 42C69 (the screw rim is actually stuck right now and so far nothing has worked to unscrew it).
The store I am going to tomorrow currently has one 4B on hold for me, thank you all so much for the advice!
Hi
Thank you very much for the further clarification.
In my opinion, a Denis Wick 4B will have a nearer cup diameter to your Reeves 42C than a Denis Wick 3B, which to me feels larger than a Bach 3C.
Hopefully the 4B will turn out well for you.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:58 am Post subject:
Since we are discussing pieces in the Wick 4 range, I just want to interject that I have a Yamaha David King mouthpiece which is in that range, but for me much more comfortable to play than the Wicks and it has a teeny bit more resistance, it seems. It sounds GLORIOUS. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 1032 Location: Travelers Rest, SC
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:19 am Post subject:
Agree about the David King mpc. I found it much more comfortable than the standard Wicks and it does produce a fantastic sound. _________________ Greg
---------------------
Getzen 3850 Custom - Kanstul 1525 Flugelhorn - Getzen Severinsen Eterna LB - 70s Bach 180ML37 - 70s Bach CL 229 25C - CarolBrass Pocket - 40 Conn 80A etc.
The advice to go for something short-shanked is good - if a Wick works for you then go for it, if not there are other choices. Wicks are the most common over here (UK) but the rims are quite uncomfortable for a lot of players.
There are a surprising number of good short-shanked cornet mouthpieces if you find you don't like the wicks though...
A few I've played and liked:
- Yamaha's 16E and David King Models are good.
- Warburton's BC cups/backbores have an appropriate sound, much tighter throat may or may not be an issue.
- Sparx no-letters are good, though the sound is a fair bit brighter than these others (not quite Wick-B bright).
- Marcinkiewicz 5XW is a super (and rarely mentioned) mouthpiece that I really enjoy (I prefer it to my Sparx 3).
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5464 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:35 pm Post subject:
Hi
Other mouthpieces which I like on the 927 Sovereign are the Schilke V3, Curry 3VC (the Curry BBC cup wasn't available when I had my 927 Sovereign, but my memory of the 3VC on the 927 Sovereign is that I like it more than the Curry 3BBC on the 928 Sovereign (I prefer the 928 Sovereign to the 927)), Yamaha 16E and Sparx 4 (I never had the chance to try the Sparx 3).
I do however believe that the Denis Wick mouthpieces are a great match to the Sovereign. The Alliance mouthpieces, which are very similar to the Denis Wick models, but with a 3B being equivalent to a 4B, are an alternative.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject:
EmilioBC wrote:
The 3BBC sounds so good, but should I really purchase something untested? It sounds risky to me.
You have not stated what rim size you play on trumpet. And if you buy through mouthpiece express, you can return whatever does not work for you. I highly suggest if at all possible, have them ship out at least a few for you to try, and only keep something if it really works. The only drawback with Curry's line of mouthpieces is you will find (and want!) so many different mouthpieces! Each has its own use that it will work really well for. Curry is one of the very few manufacturers that makes a truly consistent rim, and of those that do he's the cheapest, and by a a good bit. With no sacrifice in quality.
EmilioBC wrote:
And if the cornet high range is harder, would that help my trumpet range improve?
Yes and no. It will not immediately help you increase the highest note you can play on trumpet. What it MAY do, if you approach each instrument with the right mindset, is make the highest note(s) you can play effortlessly and with great command and control go up a bit on trumpet, after maybe a few weeks of really consistent intelligent practice.
And from there you may notice an actual increase in your highest playable notes go up a bit on trumpet, over the course of maybe 2 - 3 months. IF you adopt the habit of always putting the horn down while your chops still feel good! You can pick it up after a few minutes of letting them feel good. Your other option is to not realize how much you over-did it, and beat your chops into the ground, not even realizing it. That has yet to increase anyone's range.
In the meantime, you have found new joy with some brass plumbing in your hand! Surely the world is now a better place. And welcome to TH!
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Surely the world is now a better place. And welcome to TH!