Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: Allan Dean
I attended the Trumpet Festival of the Southeast last January in Chattanooga. By the way this is a yearly event occurring next year on the weekend of 1/31/15 at the Univ. of Alabama – Tuscaloosa hosted by Eric Yates - a great trumpeter with a strong trumpet studio. It's open to anyone.
Anyway, last year Allan Dean was a featured artist and gave a master class. He has a beautiful sound with effortless control and technique we would all die for. He mentioned something I've never heard anyone talk about. He said when playing take every opportunity to remove the mouthpiece pressure from your chops. If I remember correctly he said he makes a conscience effort to continually stick his tongue between the lips and the mouthpiece to insure he has not using mouthpiece pressure when not making a sound. He said doing this will extend your endurance and your career. Not sure how old Allan is but he’s got to be up there in age but you'd never know it listening to him play. He sounds like someone 35.
Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 303 Location: Pittsburgh
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:12 am Post subject:
I studied with Allan for two years and he definitely mentioned this tactic several times. I don't lick my chops like he does because I play with dry chops, but remembering to release the pressure from your chops (especially upper lip) is a great idea and certainly effects endurance in a good way. Basically, when you take a breath in, try to remember to pull the mouthpiece away from the top lip to allow blood to flow back to the chops. If you can quickly get the mouthpiece off of both lips and get your embouchure set very quickly, great. Otherwise, you can rely on the bottom lip to keep the placement.
Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Posts: 478 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:41 pm Post subject:
I don't know anything about Allan Dean, but I can tell you that experience has taught me to be very skeptical about things a lot of players say about their own playing. Mike's got the right idea, above: whenever possible, look at what a player does, not what he says.
When it comes to mouthpiece pressure, there was a good scientific study which was carried out comparing professionals and beginners/students. (I could probably dig it up if I had a few free minutes.)
Their findings were, basically:
* Beginners use very little pressure, and then add a LOT once in a while (I'd imagine this happens for high range, but maybe it's all over the place).
* Professionals use a lot of pressure, all the time: compared to the beginners, it's very consistent. (They measured levels of pressure in the range 30 lbs/sq in.)
* Professionals severely underestimate how much pressure they're using. (Several of the people in the study claimed not to use any pressure, but the experimental results showed very much the opposite.) They just didn't feel it.
I think Reinhardt would have said it was because they'd mastered neutralizing the backward pressure of the mouthpiece with forward pressure from a proper pucker. That's why they didn't feel like they were using much pressure.
As an aside I feel much less confident about:
I've often heard type IV players mention that they like/need to take the mouthpiece off their chops for a moment to recover (especially the top lip). Reinhardt also said that type IVs can play with tremendous endurance so long as they are able to take lots of short breaks, so there may be a connection there.
I don't know if it means that those players are using too much pressure on the top lip to begin with, or if this is simply a quirk of having the mouthpiece pressing against such a small area of the top lip (as only a IV/IVA is likely to do).
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 478 Location: Hamilton, Montana
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject:
Mike, I agree. I don't see it either. Reinhardt often said that many teachers teach the way they play or the way they THINK they play.
I've had guys who I respect claim they've seen someone play perfectly while their horn is suspended from the ceiling on a string. Personally I've never seen anyone do that. I did see a trombone player from the Fairfax Symphony Brass Quintet buzz a tuning note Bb and on one breath add the mouthpiece, the trombone to the mouthpiece and back out the same way. If someone can play a note from a suspended horn I would think it would be this type of player. I never got his name. The Fairfax Symph. would often send out small groups under their name. The players may or may not actually be in the Symph.
[quote="Paul T."]I don't know anything about Allan Dean, but I can tell yooou
Well do some research. Having had the great privilege of working with Allan more than a few times in the last few years, one thing I can assure you: he's analytical, concise, a great teacher, a great player, aware of works for him. I'd bet BIG BUCKS that if he said he does what the OP said, he indeed does. Remember, much of what we do is imperceptible to the person on the other side of the bell
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject:
This was originally posted in the Reinhardt Forum, but has no business being posted in the Reinhardt Forum, so it has been moved to the Performers Forum.
The Reinhardt Forum is for people who want to "Find out about the teachings of Dr. Donald S. Reinhardt," not for this kind of stuff.
Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 1169 Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Allan Dean
(This topic was moved while I was posting this reply. I normally only post in the Reinhardt forum.)
jadmazzer wrote:
... last year Allan Dean was a featured artist and gave a master class. He has a beautiful sound with effortless control and technique we would all die for. He mentioned something I've never heard anyone talk about. He said when playing take every opportunity to remove the mouthpiece pressure from your chops. If I remember correctly he said he makes a conscience effort to continually stick his tongue between the lips and the mouthpiece to insure he has not using mouthpiece pressure when not making a sound. He said doing this will extend your endurance and your career. Not sure how old Allan is but he’s got to be up there in age but you'd never know it listening to him play. He sounds like someone 35.
There are three times in the Amazing Grace video where you could actually see him taking a breath, where the picture was in focus:
:19, 1:25, and 1:35
Each time he keeps contact with both lips, but he does take some of the pressure off.
There are many instances where a player can be successful doing things that Reinhardt would have considered counterproductive, as long as enough other aspects are correct. It's hard to know from watching only middle range mezzo playing, what he does under more demanding playing. He sounds like a fine player but I couldn't find any examples of anything in the way of high or loud, where it would be interesting to see what he really does.
Actually it's not that interesting (in the Reinhardt forum where this was posted). He's apparently advocating something that directly contradicts what Reinhardt taught. It may very well work for him, but that's no way to fix somebody who is having problems.
I was lucky enough to study with Allan for two years at Yale, and he made sure I learned to get the horn off my face every time I had a rest. That one little thing has made an immeasurable difference to me in making a living playing trumpet every day, and I'm happy to say it's working very well for my students too!
I think if you watch this particular video closely, you'll notice that he is getting the horn slightly off his face when he breathes, and also most of the ends of phrases or breaths he's not pictured- the camera is pointing elsewhere.
"a beautiful sound with effortless control and technique we all would die for." I could not have said it any better myself!
Just curious, is that a Callet trumpet he's playing? I saw him with NYBQ in the late '60's and he and Nagel were both playing Conn 22Bs. Later on he was a Yamaha artist. Whatever, he sounds great.
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 683 Location: Hofors, Sweden
Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:10 am Post subject:
Ed Kennedy wrote:
Just curious, is that a Callet trumpet he's playing? I saw him with NYBQ in the late '60's and he and Nagel were both playing Conn 22Bs. Later on he was a Yamaha artist. Whatever, he sounds great.
In the Amazing Grace video? It's a 20's Holton Revelation... It's a "wideangleman" video (wideangleman of ebay). I think there's one with Dean playing 19tc century trumpet too.
Just curious, is that a Callet trumpet he's playing? I saw him with NYBQ in the late '60's and he and Nagel were both playing Conn 22Bs. Later on he was a Yamaha artist. Whatever, he sounds great.
In the Amazing Grace video? It's a 20's Holton Revelation... It's a "wideangleman" video (wideangleman of ebay). I think there's one with Dean playing 19tc century trumpet too.
I was looking at the Conn style braces and the reverse leadpipe.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
