Playing Double High C

solo soprano · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:17 am Post subject: Playing Double High C

Agree or disagree?

Every player who plays a double high C is doing it exactly the same way as anyone has ever played a double high C. That's because there is only one way to do it ...

Bill Knevitt

markp · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:31 am Post subject:

That would be hard to prove, but I'm pretty sure that everyone who plays that note did not prepare for it the same way.

Some buzz on the mouthpiece, some don't. Some do pedals and some don't. Some use lots of air and some don't.

Some practice for years and years before getting it and some can do it when they are in junior high. Some can do it on any equipment and others can only do it on special equipment.

Mike Sailors · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:27 am Post subject:

Wrong.
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Avan · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:37 am Post subject:

John Mohan · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:41 am Post subject:

I think in general terms that is true, but not specifically. Confused? In general, to play a Double High C, everybody blows real hard, uses tongue arch to channel the air, and manipulates their lips so as to get a good free vibration while playing the note. But the specific amount of air pressure, exact level of tongue arch and particular lip manipulation varies infinitely between individuals.

I think the best way to develop a good upper register is the same for everybody (i.e. to practice certain exercises that develop the strength and coordination required to gain the "knack" or "feel" of the upper register), though some certainly disagree with my opinion. But I'm right. I always am.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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jiarby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 1188

I disagree... but he is correct that everyone has to get their lips to resonate at the correct frequency to produce the tone.

BUT.. there are loads of different ways guys get to that point. Some have thin squeally sounds. Some have tons of power and projection. Some have complete control (up and down) and can make music in that register while others are splatty youtube arpeggio blasters.

Some are "efficiency" low pressure players, some are IIIB Gorillas.

They can all do the same thing, but in quite different ways.

trumpetdiva1 · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:26 am Post subject:

BPL · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 347

rich.Graiko · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:15 pm Post subject:

bach_again · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject:

100% disagree.
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StupidBrassObsession · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Mar 2012 Posts: 1014

I think making this claim about DHC out of context of the full playing machine is the problem.

I think it would be better to say something like "Anyone who can play from Double Pedal C to DHC all day long, plays with a good sound, has good articulation, and all the flexibility he could possibly need, is playing the instrument the right way"

I think what Claude may have been trying to get at was that the exact lip position, tongue position etc may be different for every person, but the general motions and co-ordination of the whole machine will be in the same direction for each person... Who has a virtuoso technique.

There are lots of guys who have a Double C but couldn't play an orchestral excerpt if their life depended on it.

But for the people that can tick all the boxes, the lips will be contracting generally in a similar way, and the tongue will be arching in a similar way, etc.

At least, that's my take on it!

solo soprano · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:51 am Post subject: Re: Playing Double High C

Jerry Freedman · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject:

John Mohan writes:

StupidBrassObsession · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Mar 2012 Posts: 1014

Jerry Freedman · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:32 pm Post subject:

okay, there was some strength there but not anywhere near as much as an 18 yr old diligently practicing Gordon or doing the pencil exercise and working on a pivot. I gotta believe that whatever strength 12 year girls can develop, the 18 year old can match in a couple of months. Jeanne says its not strength, its balance.

cheiden · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject:

I'm inclined to disagree.

I don't think that Cat Anderson, Jon Faddis, Maynard Ferguson, Claude Gordon, Jerome Callet, Bobby Shew and Wayne Bergeron all approach it exactly the same way.

I find no utility in trying to impose any such blanket statement about such disparate players.

Sure there are some fundamentals in common (something needs to oscillate, something need to hold the bit that oscillates, and something needs to provide and channel the air) but the physical differences of each player and their approaches for doing all that are certain to be different.
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ProAm · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 949

Disagree.

There are tricks that can be used to play a double high C, such as Walt Johnson's Double High C in Ten Minutes, that do not involve Gordon's techique and training.

Perhaps we should define what is meant by the term "play" in the context of a DHC.

Jerry Freedman · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject:

I think we can agree that they are all using their lips and blowing through the smaller end.

solo soprano · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:59 am Post subject:

bike&ed · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837

I think we can all agree that their upper lips are all buzzing at the same frequency when they play it (3729hz for DHC I believe)...