What kind of cornet is Wild Bill playing here?

ljazztrm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1qMskHsJ5I
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

walnutsoap · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:51 am Post subject:

King Master?

BillyM · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Oct 2011 Posts: 108

My favorite player. Thanks for posting I had not seen that particular video with Art Hodes. Most followers of Bill knew of his like of the King Master Model. At first I thought it was a gold plated King that was provided to him and then I noticed the receiver and the cross brace closest to the receiver. Looked more like a Conn product maybe the Concert Grand with the under slung tuning slide, but the third valve tuning slide holder is wrong. I see why you posted the question.

Bob Stevenson · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:20 am Post subject:

Surely it can't be a cornet,....it sounds just like a trumpet to me!

Richard III · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:38 am Post subject:

BillyM · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Oct 2011 Posts: 108

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIshkPmqXXk

Definitely the gold plated King Master that he played. The camera angle on the first video made the front brace appear like a Conn straight across. This video at the sames session shows the King brace better. Between the side of the mouth playing and moving the horn around like it was going to catch fire in his hands, it is hard to verify, but is the King Master that the company made special for him (gold plated and highly engraved). Wonder what became of his horns?[/url]

ljazztrm · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:19 am Post subject:

Thanks guys.. Yeah, where are his horns now? On display somewhere I would think?
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

ljazztrm · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:20 am Post subject:

I never realized these tracks were taped for tv.. I remember listening to this recording all the time as a little kid.. my dad used to always have it on.. So great to see it too!

_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com

giakara · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject:

He also plays a MV Bach 10.1/2C mpc , great video thanks.

Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs

Mac Gollehon · Veteran Member Joined: 27 Feb 2014 Posts: 255

Always was a fan of Wild Bill. I subbed for him several times on a steady gig once a week at Arthurs Tavern on Grove St when he was not in town.This was early 1980s. All the times I saw him he was playing master model king,and those cornets truly could stand up to any trumpet in straight up decibels. Another great player with a very unique style and phrasing who is surely missed.

pastbrass · Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject:

Bill played King Master cornets from the early 30's until the day he died.
A most unique talent!
Scott

tom turner · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:43 am Post subject:

When one puts a Bach 10 1/2C trumpet-type cornet mouthpiece into a long bell cornet, you basically end up with a trumpet in sound. Thus cornetists like Wild Bill could hang with trumpets all day long on the styles of music they performed!

I remember the debate back in the early '70s at FSU when they did a blind "test" with music school grad students to see if anyone could tell any difference at all between a Bach Model 37 trumpet and a Bach Model 37 cornet. Both horns had identical cupped Bach trumpet-type (C cup) mouthpieces of identical numbers. The only difference was the proper shank for each horn.

SURPRISE . . . NO "DIFFERENCE" was detected by anyone! Talking to a good friend years later who was a grad student in that test, he kept telling me there was no difference between trumpet and cornet. One day I brought in a trumpet, long bell cornet, and a shepherd's crook cornet, so he could hear the stunning difference between a trumpet, a cornet with a trumpet-top on a cornet shank (I used the same Warburton top in my demonstration).

For the short cornet I used a vintage Boston Three Star mouthpiece from 1911. Up until the Roaring '20s forward, cornets had that sweet but gentle solo cornet sound for band work and solos.

With the advent of jazz, followed by electric instruments, the instruments evolved. Peashooter trumpets gave way to richer-sounding F. Besson type trumpets, AND cornets were modified to have long trumpet-like bells for projection to match the new type trumpets.

Yep, once you used the modern Bach-type mouthpieces, with the correct shank in trumpets and cornets there was no real difference in sound. This was what happened IN THE AMERICAS.

Alas, in the end the long bell cornets saved cornets commercially until about 1970 but eventually school kids wanted the "cooler" trumpets and long bells went away . . . only to come out of the closets later onto ebay.

These days a lot of us here in America have rediscovered the short bell cornets with the super deep-V cornet mouthpieces with the huge drill size and open backbores. It truly gives a player a "fresh, new" sound that's quite a difference between their trumpet and their flugelhorn.

British Brass Band uses a different type cup vs. the vintage American cornet cup to get a sweet, mellow sound with more sparkle to it . . . a very compelling and different sound itself. I carry both vintage American and British-type cornet mouthpieces in my cornet case . . . and yes, I play almost all my cornet work on a short bell cornet, though I have several fine vintage American long bells.
_________________
Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet