what trumpets sound like a benge?

JeffTheHornGuy · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:12 pm Post subject: what trumpets sound like a benge?

as in:

-get bright without sounding harsh

-slip really smoothly and easily from slot to slot

-dont have many overtones....? im not too sure about this one. (simple sound?-not too many layers...)

any ideas?
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Dayton · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject:

You might want to consider the Burbank trumpets made by Kanstul. They are just about identical to pre-UMI Benges. Excellent horns.

dewey · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject:

Adams a5. Fantastic horn. Plays like my Chicago Benge only better.
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JeffTheHornGuy · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject:

ive played an adams a5 and it didnt sound quite as good. i dont know what it is that makes the benge sound so nice. do the burbank trumpets sound as good and play better? the reason im asking is because my benge sounds nice but needs a lot of work and is very difficult to play. i am looking for an instrument that sounds as good with the same sound qualities only plays easier.
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RussellDDixon · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject:

http://www.horntrader.com/9-burbank-trumpets
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oliver king · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 1742

Both Eldon Benge and Vincent Bach tried to capture the French Besson sound with their horns. If not another Benge or Burbank, why not consider a Bach or Kanstul's copy of the French Besson?

bagmangood · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:58 pm Post subject:

Another benge

The Adams A5 is partially inspired by a Benge and has some of the same characteristics.

Stomvi S3 has some of those components, but does not feel the same to me.

A Schilke B (or maybe even s-series) will play pretty similarly, but won't have the same depth of sound as a Benge (IMO)

There are probably other options, but those are the first to come to mind for me
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david mickley · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:59 pm Post subject:

Have a 50s Besson 10-10, sounds and plays more like a Benge than any other horn besides an early French Besson. On a new horn I would try either a Kanstul Chicago or Kanstul Burbank. Played 2 Kanstul French Besson horns and the ones I played played more bach like then Benge like, could have been the horns.
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Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO0dDI2Hd7g

Played on a Benge 3X+. Why not get yours overhauled and blue-printed.

BTW, I had a Kanstul Chicago 1001 (like 3X+) which Flip Oaks had gone through and was a marvelous instrument. It's on my seller's regret list.

Paul Tomashefsky · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject:

Jeff, I recently tried a horn built by Jim Becker at Osmun Music in Maynard, MA. I purchased a Shires BLW model about 2 years ago . . . and now wished I had waited and bought this horn. I would call Jim and speak with him about this. The horn I played had 2 tuning crooks, silver plated, it was a custom model that was designed with trumpeter Larry Pyatt. Jim did a lot of research and experimentation with the braces and placement. The horn was very free blowing, Nice full rich core, beautiful intonation and sound and it Lit up in the high register with the 2nd open tuning crook! Check it out . . . .

Paul T.

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JeffTheHornGuy · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject:

thanks! im actually going to osmun this friday to try out some schilkes and ill ask about the horn you mentioned. Trent Austin did tell me that i should get my slides refitted and my valves alligned, but im not sure i want to because i'm afraid it will change the sound that i have fallen in love with.
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LittleRusty · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:51 pm Post subject:

James should be able to diagnose your trumpet's issues and instruct on how the changes might affect it. I am not in any way questioning Trent's advice, but a second opinion is always nice.

I understand most valve alignments can be undone.

And perhaps the slide refitting could be tested using a thicker grease. The insides of the slides are not where the wear occurs so a thick grease seems like it should simulate plating the slides and refitting them.

jengstrom · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject:

Zig Kanstul worked for Elden Benge on the side when he worked at Olds. Later, he ran the Benge factory. Rumor has it that he has the original Benge tooling.

The Kanstul Chicago models are Benge copies, with a few intonation improvements by Zig. They would be worth checking out.

-John
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TrentAustin · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:59 pm Post subject:

FYI My custom A5 you tried yesterday Jeff was a bit different the stock A5s which are closer to a Benge. I don't like the slippery nature of the Benge horns and had my A5 want to slot better and also be much brighter in a practical playing situation (because I use two different Adams horns for my work the A5 and my A1 which is much thicker and richer).

BTW thanks for hanging at the shop!

-T
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject:

shofarguy · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject:

I used to own a Benge 5X made in 1976. I bought it new and kept it until July of 2011 when I had to move to Arizona and needed the funding the sale provided. In the first years of my comeback, my Benge had very loose slotting and very broad note centers. Eventually, I had Kanstul rebuild the valves by nickel plating the pistons and honing the casings to a nice tight fit. at the same time, I had them refit the valve slides which were much too loose.

I think Zig did the work himself, because when I took up the horn to inspect it, he looked at me with a knowing twinkle in his eye and said, "It came out pretty good, didn't it." It surely did! The horn played just as open as before and had the same tone quality, but with more consolidation and much more defined slotting. It was still free and flexible, but no longer sloppy.

I had already had Flip Oakes give it a valve alignment and his Enhancement. That was a fine playing trumpet, but it didn't have the signature sound characteristics of the Benge #3 bell. I've written before of a certain wonderful Chicago Benge that I had the pleasure of playing once. And, I've heard one Kanstul 1001 with that magical upper register Benge voice. There is just something in the Benge sound when a person plays into the range above the staff that I just don't hear anywhere else. The Holton 302-MF is the closest to that sound that I've heard.

One more trumpet that I've played that had a lovely upper range, similar to the Benge is the Shires model patterned after the Besson lineage. I do't know what it's called.

Also, I don't think every Benge trumpet (or Kanstul, or Shires, or Holton) made possesses that golden singing quality. The ones that do are special horns born with it waiting for someone to let it out.

Brian
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ewetho · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject:

From the history and confirmation within Kanstul Zig does have the original tooling and being he used it himself when it was a Benge tool he knows how to use it. If you just want a new Benge then the Burbank's are still being built. The Burbank's are LA Benge's hence the address on the bell to commemorate such. So a 3* is an LA Benge 3X.

If you ever thought a little heavier might be your thing the Chicago series 1000 and 1001 are 3x and 3X+ but in Chicago era weighting which was a little heavier and shorter valve throws and fixed intonation patterns around D in the staff. 1070 is a Besson Meha much like a CG Benge but closer match is new Burbank 6XG is the CG Benge but in .470 vs. .468 bore.

Besson Meha's also close.

Wanna Benge get one just not an Ohio built one. The were nice horns but much more vanilla. They just did not recreate the sound with new tools. Oops.

Kanstul really owns the heritage of the Benge now just not the name.
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lakejw · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject:

i have a King Super-20 1048 (.458) that, IMO has all the playing characteristics and sound of a Benge trumpet, but a bit more core to the sound, and slightly looser slots. It's an exceptional lead horn.
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homebilly · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:42 pm Post subject:

you might check out the new Bach Commercial horn.
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Brad361 · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:34 am Post subject:

I had a Kanstul Chicago 1000, IMO it was pretty close in sound to the Benge I have now. I do prefer the Benge; the tone just seems a bit more.......I think "brilliant" is a fairly accurate adjective. And the Benge is definitely looser slot-wise. Some like that, others do not. I do find that I need to be a bit more diligent with the Benge in order to avoid cracking a note, but the tone and the flexibility is worth it, IMO. And the horn definitely plays more open and even after Flip did his enhancement on it.

Brad
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