• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

miracle cure for removing spit water from flug - anyone got


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Cornet/Flügelhorn
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
comosun
Regular Member


Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 54
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: miracle cure for removing spit water from flug - anyone got Reply with quote

Nothing worse than beginning a ballad on your flug and water bubbles join in the accompaniment. The new spit valves, in my opinion, don't really work for this pesky horn with the mellow fluid sound. I guess it depends on the make of the horn. I'm tired of having to take out the third valve during a performance and drain it that way. Suggestions anyone?

Gerry Deagle
Vancouve trumpet player

http://www.gerrystrumpettips.com
_________________
"If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On"
- Shakespeare
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ChopsGone
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 1793

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One very good way would be to trade that thing in on one of Flip Oakes's Wild Thing flugelhorns. They're equipped with three Amado waterkeys, arranged so that you can empty all three at the same time, depressing the plungers with one hand. Pretty slick idea, and it works beautifully. So does the horn.
_________________
Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheiden
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8910
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't find it terribly difficult to purge my horn before starting a tune. Every horn has its quirks but the water keys on my Yamaha seem to do the job just fine.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8951
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't blow too hard when using the water keys -- you can blow the water right past them. On any horn.

The trumpet trick of rotating 90 degrees (putting the horn on on it's side, second valve tube pointing up), pressing each valve, BLOW (hard this time), then one last blow and tilting down to send the water out the bell works fine for me as well.
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lakejw
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 543
Location: Brooklyn, New York

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, your problem can be solved by BUYING A NEW HORN

Often times the flugel sounds wet because it's been sitting cold for an hour before you play it. Of course, during the first warm breaths the condensation is at it's worst. Blow a bunch of warm air through the horn as soon as you pick it up, while emptying the spit, and by the time you go to play you should be good to go.
_________________
New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp

johnlakejazz.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RandyTX
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 5299
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minor point but I've seen people do it, even in performance situations. The first valve slide collects more water than the rest of the horn combined most of the time due to the way the leadpipe runs straight into the valve block.

You see people empty everything *but* that slide, and wonder why they can't get rid of the burbles.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
razeontherock
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lakejw wrote:
Yes, your problem can be solved by BUYING A NEW HORN


And only a Wild Thing will do!

But seriously, the OP has not told us what type of spit valves he's got, ("the new ones?") how they're configured, nor what horn. It's really not hard to add a spit valve as needed ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4800

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep my horns clean with regular full take-it-all-apart cleanings, but on the rare occasions when I do get a gurgle, it's because...the horn needs to be cleaned!

And not just cleaning the valves - we're talking the full Monty here.

At least, from my personal experience, that has taken care of the gurgle.

Hope this helps.
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chuck in ny
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 3597
Location: New York

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Herman rev2 wrote:
Don't blow too hard when using the water keys -- you can blow the water right past them. On any horn.

The trumpet trick of rotating 90 degrees (putting the horn on on it's side, second valve tube pointing up), pressing each valve, BLOW (hard this time), then one last blow and tilting down to send the water out the bell works fine for me as well.


thanks don that's interesting i'll give it a try.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
oljackboy
Veteran Member


Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim is right about the horn needing cleaning. Another thing to look at is the actual holes in the tubing that drain the water. Particularly with Amato keys, the holes can simply be drilled out slightly. This is something for a tech to do, but is a very quick and simple process. This can really open up the flow without hurting the sound.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zaferis
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 2309
Location: Beavercreek, OH

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oljackboy wrote:
Tim is right about the horn needing cleaning. Another thing to look at is the actual holes in the tubing that drain the water. Particularly with Amato keys, the holes can simply be drilled out slightly. This is something for a tech to do, but is a very quick and simple process. This can really open up the flow without hurting the sound.


took the words out of my mouth..


also pay attention to the angle at which you're holding the instrument when you empty water - I see a lot of student that, for example, point the bell of the horn too much toward the floor when emptying, then can't figure out why they still have water in the instrument.
_________________
Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrsemman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 808
Location: West Brookfield, MA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you thought about using a Joy Key? I am experimenting with them on my bass trumpet. Seems to work pretty good. Although they do not seem to purge a lot of fluid, they do keep a lot of the fluid from building up.
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4800

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oljackboy wrote:
Another thing to look at is the actual holes in the tubing that drain the water. Particularly with Amato keys, the holes can simply be drilled out slightly. This is something for a tech to do, but is a very quick and simple process. This can really open up the flow without hurting the sound.

An excellent point.

Sometimes the burs from drilled holes don't get removed, usually with Amado keys but sometimes also with traditional spit valves.

Also check for any other interior obstructions like sloppy solder in joints - these can all create areas where spit can collect up...and it seems always at the most inopportune & embarrassing moments in a performance, too, eh?
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 7769
Location: Des Moines, IA area

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyTX wrote:
Minor point but I've seen people do it, even in performance situations. The first valve slide collects more water than the rest of the horn combined most of the time due to the way the leadpipe runs straight into the valve block.

You see people empty everything *but* that slide, and wonder why they can't get rid of the burbles.
Sounds like my P5-4… Have to get water all over a clean tux shirt before digging in but it's about the only way to clear that thing.

Ditto with the cleaning on flugels!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
pfeifela
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 1280
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsemman wrote:
Have you thought about using a Joy Key? I am experimenting with them on my bass trumpet. Seems to work pretty good. Although they do not seem to purge a lot of fluid, they do keep a lot of the fluid from building up.


Perfect! A new gear item to solve my problems. I'll take 5.
_________________
Larry Pfeifer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
mrsemman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 808
Location: West Brookfield, MA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pfeifela wrote:
mrsemman wrote:
Have you thought about using a Joy Key? I am experimenting with them on my bass trumpet. Seems to work pretty good. Although they do not seem to purge a lot of fluid, they do keep a lot of the fluid from building up.


Perfect! A new gear item to solve my problems. I'll take 5.


They are great for automatically "drooling" on the alto sax players. And cheap too! Only $25 per installed. Five should just be about right.

Gary
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4800

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely MUST ask...what is a "Joy key?"
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8951
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1. I NEED one of those!

Nevermind, Google to the rescue: http://www.thejoykey.com/en/
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4800

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno...seems like the Joykey would eliminate the oh-so-dramatic-emptying-my-spit-valves-to-distract-from-a-big-clam motion that I've spent years perfecting.

Yes - always blame it on spit & spit valves.
_________________
Tim Wendt

www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Don Herman rev2
'Chicago School' Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 8951
Location: Monument, CO

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are always bones and strings to blame it on, and don't forget those pesky saxes... And you could always just go through the motion.

There have been other threads on Joy Keys, like this one: http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=102220
_________________
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Cornet/Flügelhorn All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group