View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
comosun Regular Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 54 Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
|
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject: miracle cure for removing spit water from flug - anyone got |
|
|
Nothing worse than beginning a ballad on your flug and water bubbles join in the accompaniment. The new spit valves, in my opinion, don't really work for this pesky horn with the mellow fluid sound. I guess it depends on the make of the horn. I'm tired of having to take out the third valve during a performance and drain it that way. Suggestions anyone?
Gerry Deagle
Vancouve trumpet player
http://www.gerrystrumpettips.com _________________ "If Music Be the Food of Love, Play On"
- Shakespeare |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ChopsGone Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793
|
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
One very good way would be to trade that thing in on one of Flip Oakes's Wild Thing flugelhorns. They're equipped with three Amado waterkeys, arranged so that you can empty all three at the same time, depressing the plungers with one hand. Pretty slick idea, and it works beautifully. So does the horn. _________________ Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't find it terribly difficult to purge my horn before starting a tune. Every horn has its quirks but the water keys on my Yamaha seem to do the job just fine. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
|
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Don't blow too hard when using the water keys -- you can blow the water right past them. On any horn.
The trumpet trick of rotating 90 degrees (putting the horn on on it's side, second valve tube pointing up), pressing each valve, BLOW (hard this time), then one last blow and tilting down to send the water out the bell works fine for me as well. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lakejw Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Posts: 543 Location: Brooklyn, New York
|
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, your problem can be solved by BUYING A NEW HORN
Often times the flugel sounds wet because it's been sitting cold for an hour before you play it. Of course, during the first warm breaths the condensation is at it's worst. Blow a bunch of warm air through the horn as soon as you pick it up, while emptying the spit, and by the time you go to play you should be good to go. _________________ New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp
johnlakejazz.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
|
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Minor point but I've seen people do it, even in performance situations. The first valve slide collects more water than the rest of the horn combined most of the time due to the way the leadpipe runs straight into the valve block.
You see people empty everything *but* that slide, and wonder why they can't get rid of the burbles. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
|
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
lakejw wrote: | Yes, your problem can be solved by BUYING A NEW HORN |
And only a Wild Thing will do!
But seriously, the OP has not told us what type of spit valves he's got, ("the new ones?") how they're configured, nor what horn. It's really not hard to add a spit valve as needed ... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4800
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
|
Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Don Herman rev2 wrote: | Don't blow too hard when using the water keys -- you can blow the water right past them. On any horn.
The trumpet trick of rotating 90 degrees (putting the horn on on it's side, second valve tube pointing up), pressing each valve, BLOW (hard this time), then one last blow and tilting down to send the water out the bell works fine for me as well. |
thanks don that's interesting i'll give it a try. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oljackboy Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2008 Posts: 290
|
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Tim is right about the horn needing cleaning. Another thing to look at is the actual holes in the tubing that drain the water. Particularly with Amato keys, the holes can simply be drilled out slightly. This is something for a tech to do, but is a very quick and simple process. This can really open up the flow without hurting the sound. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2309 Location: Beavercreek, OH
|
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
oljackboy wrote: | Tim is right about the horn needing cleaning. Another thing to look at is the actual holes in the tubing that drain the water. Particularly with Amato keys, the holes can simply be drilled out slightly. This is something for a tech to do, but is a very quick and simple process. This can really open up the flow without hurting the sound. |
took the words out of my mouth..
also pay attention to the angle at which you're holding the instrument when you empty water - I see a lot of student that, for example, point the bell of the horn too much toward the floor when emptying, then can't figure out why they still have water in the instrument. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mrsemman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 808 Location: West Brookfield, MA
|
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Have you thought about using a Joy Key? I am experimenting with them on my bass trumpet. Seems to work pretty good. Although they do not seem to purge a lot of fluid, they do keep a lot of the fluid from building up. _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4800
|
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
oljackboy wrote: | Another thing to look at is the actual holes in the tubing that drain the water. Particularly with Amato keys, the holes can simply be drilled out slightly. This is something for a tech to do, but is a very quick and simple process. This can really open up the flow without hurting the sound. |
An excellent point.
Sometimes the burs from drilled holes don't get removed, usually with Amado keys but sometimes also with traditional spit valves.
Also check for any other interior obstructions like sloppy solder in joints - these can all create areas where spit can collect up...and it seems always at the most inopportune & embarrassing moments in a performance, too, eh? _________________ Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7769 Location: Des Moines, IA area
|
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
RandyTX wrote: | Minor point but I've seen people do it, even in performance situations. The first valve slide collects more water than the rest of the horn combined most of the time due to the way the leadpipe runs straight into the valve block.
You see people empty everything *but* that slide, and wonder why they can't get rid of the burbles. | Sounds like my P5-4… Have to get water all over a clean tux shirt before digging in but it's about the only way to clear that thing.
Ditto with the cleaning on flugels! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pfeifela Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2006 Posts: 1280 Location: Portland, Oregon
|
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
mrsemman wrote: | Have you thought about using a Joy Key? I am experimenting with them on my bass trumpet. Seems to work pretty good. Although they do not seem to purge a lot of fluid, they do keep a lot of the fluid from building up. |
Perfect! A new gear item to solve my problems. I'll take 5. _________________ Larry Pfeifer |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mrsemman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 808 Location: West Brookfield, MA
|
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
pfeifela wrote: | mrsemman wrote: | Have you thought about using a Joy Key? I am experimenting with them on my bass trumpet. Seems to work pretty good. Although they do not seem to purge a lot of fluid, they do keep a lot of the fluid from building up. |
Perfect! A new gear item to solve my problems. I'll take 5. |
They are great for automatically "drooling" on the alto sax players. And cheap too! Only $25 per installed. Five should just be about right.
Gary _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4800
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
|
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
+1. I NEED one of those!
Nevermind, Google to the rescue: http://www.thejoykey.com/en/ _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4800
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
|
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
There are always bones and strings to blame it on, and don't forget those pesky saxes... And you could always just go through the motion.
There have been other threads on Joy Keys, like this one: http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=102220 _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|