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Cousneon - Denis Wick ???


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dupac
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Joined: 17 Mar 2012
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Location: Bordeaux, France

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right: Couesnon shank.
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Mike Prestage
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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Location: Hereford, UK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giovanni wrote:
The measure at the start of the my leadpipe is 10mm and the end is 10mm....
I took the measure at last evening....
And I don't say never "Wicks seat well in the mouthpipe"
They have some difference:
-2F shank is small for all of your leght, only at the last part of shank is right for fix...
-2FL shank is too bigger, and it'f seat inside only for ~1,5cm, the rest of shank it is ouside at the leadpipe.

ALl two are so bad, as my impression....


Your instrument is clearly a PGM Couesnon. The Bach taper leadpipe seems to be standard for PGM horns but it wouldn't surprise me if there are exceptions. Unfortunately I don't think your measurements will help much to tell what you have - I'd expect Bach and French pipes to both measure roughly 10 mm at each end. The difference is that the Bach taper pipe tapers smaller for 20-30 mm and then has a step back up to about 10mm. (I've never personally looked along one from a Couesnon but I'm almost certain this is what it would be like.) The French taper pipe has a very short tapered section but on the Couesnons I've owned you can barely see it. The rest is just a continuous bore of about 10 mm. If you've looked carefully and you're sure that yours is like this, I'm 95% it's a French taper pipe!

Mike
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Giovanni
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Joined: 23 Jul 2014
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Location: Milano

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great!
When I see at 10mm inside, from the start at leadpipe I could see a little little little line, but the diameter of that are always the same (D.10mm), there isn't any really step.
I believe that your explanation is on the right direction!!!
When I choose (on Stork website) the mouthpiece, they have some possibility on that:
Yamaha
Kanstul
Bach
Getzen
French taper
Cousneon

You can se (under shank style): http://storkcustommouthpieces.shop033.com/p/8647489/vacchiano-4-flugelhorn-mouthpiece-.html
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dupac
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Location: Bordeaux, France

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So go to Couesnon (Cuesnon !).
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Giovanni
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Location: Milano

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I' sorry but this is an your previous post:

"Mouthpiece Express has the Curry 1-FL "Couesnon taper", that fits with vintage Couesnon flugelhorns (and not modern ones)"

Are sure? My flugel is a modern one or not?
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Voltrane
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giovanni,

your horn is a PGM Couesnon (a "modern" horn)

Here is a "classical" 142 from Couesnon:



Many differences, but just have a look at the leadpipe and the braces.

If you are interested I can post detailed pictures of my 140.

Regarding the taper, I have written to a big music store in Paris that sells the PGM Couesnon flugels to know what kind of mouthpiece they provide with.

I will let you know if I have an answer.

Marc
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Giovanni
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Location: Milano

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are an Angel!!!
Thank you very much for your help!!!! You are a very gentleman!!!

But in your attacched photo I can see another kind of leadpipe, you can see my flugel horn on this link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ozzqrds6nzt281w/AACNkt6snTKNRPKqeUqfBPxva?dl=0

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Voltrane
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giovanni,

your wellcome: it is the target of the forum.

But what other leadpipe picture are you talking about? The 142 and the 140 classical Couesnon have the same "cross" leadpipe. May be a "picture effect"?

Marc
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Giovanni
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my leadpipe:
The last 10mm of the receiver are different...[/img]
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Voltrane
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I am still waiting an answer from the store but meanwhile I found this ad on a French site :



The guy says he sells his 142 PGM with "original mouthpiece from Couesnon" ( not clear in French if it is the PGM original mouthpiece or a true Couesnon mp) and a Wick 4F.

That's the horn.



Interesting...but still waiting official confirmation (and assuming the current 2011-2014 leadpipes are the same than the 90'...)

Marc
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Mike Prestage
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giovanni, unless PGM Couesnon can check their factory records for you, I wouldn't assume that all horns marked PGM need the same mouthpiece shank. To establish for certain if you have a French taper leadpipe, all you need to do is find a round object which will fit in the non-mouthpiece end of the leadpipe without wobbling much. The shank end of a 10 mm drill bit might be perfect, or might not fit at all, in which case you'll need to find something like a pen of the right sort of size. Once you've got something that fits closely at this end, try it at the mouthpiece end. If it will pass straight through, you have a French taper pipe. If it will only go to a certain depth, you have something else, probably Bach taper.

Mike[/i]
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stephan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giovanni wrote:
Marc the flugel is this:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ozzqrds6nzt281w/AACNkt6snTKNRPKqeUqfBPxva?dl=0


Giovanni,
I had the same Monopole 142 but mine wasn't a PGM. I believe it was from the '90.
The receiver of my pre-PGM fitted the Bach taper mouthpieces as the PGM.
The french shank and Yamaha taper mouthpieces are not for you.
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Giovanni
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Location: Milano

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my leadpipe, as similar of the modern Cousneon one:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j8iuvpfl10scep1/AABuXu6P_b5nmCnopZ-WPAvRa?dl=0

As you can see, the internal leadpipe is it a smooth bore all the way along.
Now, the bach taper is different, right?
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Flugelnut
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giovanni: to further confuse you (sorry!), you are contradicting yourself when in one of your posts you write that your mouthpipe is 10 mm at beginning and end, and at the same time that the FL shank goes in for 15 mm.
If you measure the shank at that place you'll find it's approx. 10.3 mm in diameter.
If, as I assume, the F-shank goes in for approx. 24 mm AND doesn't wobble, IMO you have a pipe that's reamed at a 1:20 taper to take a conical shank mouthpiece, probably a small Morse one like the Wick F.
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Giovanni
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmmmmm.....sorry but I have the finally reply from Cousneon Company.
"On your model are only suitable Cousneon or Bach mouthpiece"

Now I would to try an Bach mouthpiece, and probably after I going to buy a very deep Stork model with Bach schank.

Thank you very much!
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Flugelnut
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK: Bach shank sounds good, that's what a small Morse is.
If you want a really deep cup with a comfortable rim, I'd recommend a Flip Oakes model, or, slightly less deep, a Curry FLD.
Good luck!
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