Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8916 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject:
There's no trick to it. Either put in the time practicing sight reading up a step or take the time to manually transpose everything in advance. I've done both and each has it's merits.
Closest thing to a trick I've seen is that there's an iPad app that lets you take a picture and pull a piece right into a notation program which should allow instantaneous transposition. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
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Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject:
"I took the hymn book home and commenced the study of transposition by writing out the various hymns a tone higher. This was a wonderful help, but I very soon discovered that it would be necessary for me to play in many more keys that were only in two sharps or flats. I commenced playing them in three, four, five and even six sharps and flats. At the start this was extremely difficult. I was obliged to play everything very slowly, thinking carefully of each note and interval while pressing my fingers down on the valves with determination. And thus it was that in due time I mastered nearly all the keys by thoroughly practicing their scales."
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:13 pm Post subject:
If you'd like to practice transposition, I suggest you take a pencil in one hand, point at each note and say the transposed note as quickly as you can. Do it in time if you can. Leave the horn out of it for a bit. Or play through the music so slowly you'd can hardly miss the transposed notes. Up a step and adding 2 #s is the easiest for me to think. After a while it will become natural and simple.
BTW- I have an outstanding young lady student from Japan who learned pitches as concert pitches rather than the transposed ones on Bb we learn in US/UK, etc. That's a good way to teach/learn- then there is no transposition problem if you know the name of the pitch. Good luck.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject:
Craig Swartz wrote:
BTW- I have an outstanding young lady student from Japan who learned pitches as concert pitches rather than the transposed ones on Bb we learn in US/UK, etc. That's a good way to teach/learn- then there is no transposition problem if you know the name of the pitch.
But doesn't she have to do the reverse - Bb to C? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
BTW- I have an outstanding young lady student from Japan who learned pitches as concert pitches rather than the transposed ones on Bb we learn in US/UK, etc. That's a good way to teach/learn- then there is no transposition problem if you know the name of the pitch. Good luck.
Isn't that how tuba and euphonium players approach it, in concert pitch? You play a written Bb open, for example. But their music is in concert pitch. Was she taught to read from concert pitch music, too?
To play C parts on a B-flat trumpet, change the clef to alto clef and add two sharps to the key signature. The guide is really helpful about how to learn new clefs, spotting intervals, and adjusting accidentals in the part. Use the tunes in the back of the Arban's on any songbook as practice.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:22 pm Post subject:
brasslete_jon wrote:
To play C parts on a B-flat trumpet, change the clef to alto clef and . . .
Why? Surely reading notes one step up is just as easy, or easier, than learning to read from a different clef? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8336 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:24 am Post subject:
kehaulani wrote:
brasslete_jon wrote:
To play C parts on a B-flat trumpet, change the clef to alto clef and . . .
Why? Surely reading notes one step up is just as easy, or easier, than learning to read from a different clef?
Yeah. Me too. I understand these clef shortcuts, but I just transpose intervals much easier. Reading up a step, a third, a fourth, and a fifth is much easier for me than trying to remember alto clef. Actually, if I do get stuck reading a strange clef (bass clef doesn't count, it's not strange) I just transpose it. It just makes more work out of a task that's not really that hard. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
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Trumpet players should learn to transpose as a fundamental part of performing. And this is not just limited to orchestral playing.
In the studio or rehearsing a new show sometimes there is not time to rewrite the parts. I always enjoyed seeing us trumpet players sight read a chart up a third or some other transposition so much better than the saxophones and to a lessor degree the trombones. The strings where totally lost!
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:30 am Post subject:
Seems pretty snarky. You'd end up with one sharp, of course, something you could have added to provide something worthwhile.
F (one flat) -> G (one sharp)
Up a step, add two sharps, cancelling flats as appropriate. Like pretty much everyone from Richard on has said. _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Trumpet Church music transposing
Insyderzska1 wrote:
Is there any good way to figure out how to transpose church music from the hymn book to what I really need to play ?
Do it more often.
A good source of practice material is the hymn book itself. You likely know many of the melodies very well already. Practice playing through those at home from the book. You'll be able to hear any errors very quickly.
Just like most skills, the more you do it, the easier it will get.
Joined: 20 Jun 2013 Posts: 75 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:28 am Post subject:
Crazy Finn wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
brasslete_jon wrote:
To play C parts on a B-flat trumpet, change the clef to alto clef and . . .
Why? Surely reading notes one step up is just as easy, or easier, than learning to read from a different clef?
Yeah. Me too. I understand these clef shortcuts, but I just transpose intervals much easier. Reading up a step, a third, a fourth, and a fifth is much easier for me than trying to remember alto clef. Actually, if I do get stuck reading a strange clef (bass clef doesn't count, it's not strange) I just transpose it. It just makes more work out of a task that's not really that hard.
At first, transposing by clefs is the harder way. When Frank Kaderabek first introduced clefs to me, I cheated and stuck with intervals (I sucked at transposing...he was perfect). But once you're comfortable reading in different clefs, you can eliminate a step in your head while sight-reading. Instead of thinking a major 3rd above the written C, you read it as an E in bass clef and add four sharps to the key signature.
I also like the practice of learning clefs so I can read orchestral scores that use alto, tenor, and bass clefs. (Learning mezzo-soprano clef and baritone clef doesn't get much use outside of transposing).
You also don't have to be exclusive in using only intervals or only clefs. For me, I decided to stick with clefs because I thought it would have greater benefits in the long-run. In the end, do whatever works! _________________ Jon Manness
http://www.jonathanmanness.com
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:10 am Post subject:
ProAm wrote:
Craig Swartz wrote:
BTW- I have an outstanding young lady student from Japan who learned pitches as concert pitches rather than the transposed ones on Bb we learn in US/UK, etc. That's a good way to teach/learn- then there is no transposition problem if you know the name of the pitch. Good luck.
Isn't that how tuba and euphonium players approach it, in concert pitch? You play a written Bb open, for example. But their music is in concert pitch. Was she taught to read from concert pitch music, too?
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:17 am Post subject:
kehaulani wrote:
Craig Swartz wrote:
BTW- I have an outstanding young lady student from Japan who learned pitches as concert pitches rather than the transposed ones on Bb we learn in US/UK, etc. That's a good way to teach/learn- then there is no transposition problem if you know the name of the pitch.
But doesn't she have to do the reverse - Bb to C?
I'm not sure I understand: written 3rd space for her, on Bb trumpet is called B ("bay"-not H, btw). I suppose alto saxes (etc) are taught in the same manner if everything is based on concert pitch.
Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 907 Location: Clinton, MS
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:05 am Post subject:
When I was in high school, I played with the Jackson Symphony- at that time an all volunteer group. Many of the parts were written in C and I got really good at transposing. In our church orchestra, our Minister of Music asked us to play along with the hymns, and I discovered I had lost that ability to transpose on the fly. I have a Fake Book at the house and started to use that to practice transposition. There are two high school players with us and they picked it up in no time. It just takes practice.
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