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tvknight415 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Posts: 132 Location: WI
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Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:11 am Post subject: Wick 2 cornet equivalent from Curry? |
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Has anyone had Mr. Curry make them a custom piece to be the equivalent of a Wick 2 cornet mouthpiece (the really deep one)? Did you go with a flugel mouthpiece on a cornet shank, a custom duplication, or let Mark come up with something else? If so, what were the results (and if a flugel cup, which did you go with - to my untrained eye, the Wick 2 looks between a FL and FLD cup but with a bigger throat)?
I've got his BBC, but am looking for that really deep dark Wick no-letter sound with a comfortable rim. I've considered moving to a 4W for rim comfort, but would rather stay at the larger size and have all my rims matching (everything else I play on is Curry 1-1/2s).
Thanks. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:26 am Post subject: |
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I had him make a flugel MP, a FL-D, which is his deepest flugel MP on a cornet shank. He told me it was the deepest cornet mouthpiece he'd done and was curious also what it would sound like. I had it made for a pre-58 Conn 80A. Really nice sound.
Compared to a Wick no letter it has a more resonant sound. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Personally, I'd send Jim New at Kansul, your Denis Wick 2 cornet mouthpiece and one of your Curry 1.5s to scan. I would then ask him to digitally combine the two, making sure that he combines the minimum amount of the Curry 1.5 rim with the maximum amount of the top of the Wick 2 cup.
I learned my lesson with this, when I did it the screw rim way. I had Jim New make me a screw rim version of my Bach 3C rim. Since I was going to send my rim to Bob Reeves with my Wick 4B cornet mouthpiece to thread as an underpart, I mustakeny asked for Reeves threads on my screw rim. I subsequently learnt when I tried to ascertain why the resulting mouthpiece sounded halfway between a Bach cornet mouthpiece and a Denis Wick 4B, that I should have specified Bach threads, as this preserves more of the top portion of the cup of the mouthpiece converted to the underpart. I believe that you need to preserve as much of the top of the Denis Wick cup as possible, or you lose the timbre of the original mouthpiece.
I really hope that this will help.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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What is also interesting is that I find the Curry BBC rim quite sharp and the Wick rims no problem at all. But it might be because I'm playing Curry 7's and a Wick 4. I've also got all of the no letter and B Wicks from 2-5. All are comfortable to me. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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If I ever move back over to cornet from flugel in BB, definitely going to have a Wick underpart matched to a Curry rim.
Not that Mark isn't already busy, but if he came out with a "Wick no-letter clone" with his rim on top, it'd be a home run. |
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tvknight415 Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Posts: 132 Location: WI
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for the feedback so far.
As to the Kanstul idea, I think I'd rather try Mark first, just because I'm getting the genuine thing, not a clone (Have to believe that there are micro-differences between a clone and an original cut). Also, thinking the price would be more reasonable. I'm not opposed to the idea, depending on price, and if I'm able to reach Mark for the custom order.
I was looking at the cup profiles on the internet wayback machine archive of Mark's site (they don't appear to be currently listed), and the VC cup looks fairly large, but not as deep as the flugel cups. Anyone have a thought how close that might be to a Wick no-letter equivalent?
Richard-if I may ask, how much was the upcharge for the custom shank on the FLD? Was it along the lines of the custom Olds/Conn shanks, or more along a custom blank/custom piece price (If you don't feel comfortable listing it online, drop me a PM). |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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tvknight415 wrote: | Thank you for the feedback so far.
As to the Kanstul idea, I think I'd rather try Mark first, just because I'm getting the genuine thing, not a clone (Have to believe that there are micro-differences between a clone and an original cut).
Hi
I understand. I have however been very happy with my Kanstul copies.
Also, thinking the price would be more reasonable. I'm not opposed to the idea, depending on price, and if I'm able to reach Mark for the custom order.
I believe that the last time I had this sort of work done, Kanstul charged $125. I am not sure how that compares to Mark Curry's price for a custom mouthpiece.
I was looking at the cup profiles on the internet wayback machine archive of Mark's site (they don't appear to be currently listed), and the VC cup looks fairly large, but not as deep as the flugel cups. Anyone have a thought how close that might be to a Wick no-letter equivalent?
I like the Curry VC, but from memory, the cup is quite a bit shallower than a Denis Wick no letter cup.
Take Care
Lou
Richard-if I may ask, how much was the upcharge for the custom shank on the FLD? Was it along the lines of the custom Olds/Conn shanks, or more along a custom blank/custom piece price (If you don't feel comfortable listing it online, drop me a PM). |
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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tvknight415 wrote: | Thank you for the feedback so far.
As to the Kanstul idea, I think I'd rather try Mark first, just because I'm getting the genuine thing, not a clone (Have to believe that there are micro-differences between a clone and an original cut). Also, thinking the price would be more reasonable. I'm not opposed to the idea, depending on price, and if I'm able to reach Mark for the custom order.
I was looking at the cup profiles on the internet wayback machine archive of Mark's site (they don't appear to be currently listed), and the VC cup looks fairly large, but not as deep as the flugel cups. Anyone have a thought how close that might be to a Wick no-letter equivalent?
Richard-if I may ask, how much was the upcharge for the custom shank on the FLD? Was it along the lines of the custom Olds/Conn shanks, or more along a custom blank/custom piece price (If you don't feel comfortable listing it online, drop me a PM). |
It seems like the total was around $110 and I had it in a week. This was when people were saying he never returned email. I titled the email Curry FL-D Flugel MP on a Conn cornet shank or something like that. I think if it's obvious, he will respond.
As for the VC cups. I play a VC cup most of the time. It is designed to be just what it says, vintage in design and sound. It is nothing like the sound of the Wick no letter. Think Bix sound. The BBC is closer, though that is a sound bridge between the no letter and the Wick B. So If the BBC is not deep enough for you, the VC certainly won't be. Nothing sounds like a Wick. I've tried Yamaha, custom CG Personals with larger throats, Flip Oakes and GR. The GR sounds great with great intonation, but not like a Wick. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Again not like a Wick, but other compromises which may be worth trying are the Warburton 3BC, Schilke Symphony Series V2 or Yamaha 16E. The Yamaha 16E is my favourite brass band cornet mouthpiece, but I am a player who finds that the Wick 2 sounds too flugel like. The 16E has a cup depth between the Wick B and no letter cups (deeper from memory than the Curry BBC), and a smaller throat. To me, it has a lovely Brass Band cornet tone, far more brass band like than a Curry BBC. Its rim is however fairly narrow, and not as comfortable as that of the Warburton 3BC, which for me personally, was the most comfortable rim I have played. For me, the Yamaha 16E wins on sound, but it doesn't sound like a Denis Wick no letter cup.
Take Care
Lou
http://www.schilkemusic.com/products/mouthpieces/custom-series/#symphony-cornet _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Louise Finch wrote: | Hi
Again not like a Wick, but other compromises which may be worth trying are the Warburton 3BC, Schilke Symphony Series V2 or Yamaha 16E. The Yamaha 16E is my favourite brass band cornet mouthpiece, but I am a player who finds that the Wick 2 sounds too flugel like. The 16E has a cup depth between the Wick B and no letter cups (deeper from memory than the Curry BBC), and a smaller throat. To me, it has a lovely Brass Band cornet tone, far more brass band like than a Curry BBC. Its rim is however fairly narrow, and not as comfortable as that of the Warburton 3BC, which for me personally, was the most comfortable rim I have played. For me, the Yamaha 16E wins on sound, but it doesn't sound like a Denis Wick no letter cup.
Take Care
Lou
http://www.schilkemusic.com/products/mouthpieces/custom-series/#symphony-cornet |
Another thing about the Yamaha is that it is a lighter weight blank than the Wicks. For me it feels a bit more nimble and easier to get around on. But yes, it doesn't sound like a Wick. The search for the holy grail continues.
Also I never felt the Curry BBC was trying to replace the Wick no letter. It always felt like a deeper and richer Wick B. In that it succeeds.
Has anyone tried the GR #8? I have the #7 and it is very easy to play and approaches the Wick no letter. Sort of a sound between the Curry BBC and the Wick no letter. I've wanted to try the #8 but the price is holding me back. Plus, I've moved to a smaller rim size (Curry 7). All my GR's are 66 rims which are closer to a Curry/Bach 3. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:16 am Post subject: |
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The Wick 2 rim should be very similar to a 1.5C Bach rim, but it won;t feel like it because of the steep drop away from the edge.
You might find this review helpful (or not):
http://www.ecalpemos.org/2014/03/denis-wick-cornet-mouthpiece-review.html _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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