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TheBrassBandMajor
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Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 263
Location: New Zealand
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 Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject: NEW Cornet help PLEASE FAST REPLIES! |
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Hi,
I'm a amateur trumpeter and I played in bands, duets, ensembles and blah blah blah. I have a 2 Flugelhorns and one Yamaha YTR1335(S) Trumpet.
Now I would like a cornet in my collection.
My father said that he would buy me a Josef Lidl Copy Rotary Cornet.
So, with my budget I would like to buy a proper piston valve cornet.
I prefer vintage rather than new cornets.
I looked up some Holton C603 which was new but it was 800NZD Yikes !!!!
I looked up some York Cornets but the shipping was 200NZD and the instrument itself was around 150.
Does anyone know a good cornet brand which is old or if good please reply with a Ebay Listing of it 
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Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6177
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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King Master would be one of the better makes among pre-1970 models.
http://www.hnwhite.com/Cornet%20Page.htm
Olds Ambassador is another good make.
Getzen 300, 400 or Capri; Kanstul 730 or 731; Yamaha 2330 or 2310 are all fine choices among more recent cornets.
Ask Fred Cirksena at www.quality-brass.com - he is a great guy, very reliable and has a TON of used cornets in his store.
Daniel Oberloh at http://www.oberloh.com/sales/trumpets.htm does excellent repairs and has vintage cornets for sale. He is VERY knowledgeable about Conn, Olds, Reynolds, HN White and everything vintage. |
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GordonH
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Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 2893
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:56 am Post subject: |
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You have a choice between short model (brass band style) or long model (mainly used for Jazz). I play both.
What will your primary use be?
As you live in New Zealand I suspect there will be more of the short model cornets available second hand. My suggestion for a workable used cornet is always the Yamaha 2330 (especially if you can find a 2330II or 2330III). If you can't find that then the long model version 2310 is not as much of a long model as most and one of the top cornet players I know says its the best cornet he has ever played on (take that with a pinch of salt if you like - he certainly liked it and regretted having to hand it back to the band he used it with).
Other used short models worth considering at the lower end: Boosey and Hawkes Imperial (if its the fixed leadpipe version), JP Instruments make a nice intermediate model with a leadpipe by Smith Watkins but you might struggle to find one used in New Zealand. Besson 1000 series (modern ones) - some production issues but if you get a good one and its cheap enough it can be a good buy.
Avoid: Chinese copies of the Yamaha 2330 unless you can play them. Some are inconsistent, some are excellent. Anything made in Czech republic or GDR in the 80's!
This will all come down to availability local to you. Not sure if you have to pay import duty from Australia or not. That would increase the possibilities as they have lots of used brass band instruments in circulation.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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gbshelbymi
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Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 1032
Location: Travelers Rest, SC
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: |
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CarolBrass makes some wonderful cornets at very reasonable prices.
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Greg
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Getzen 3850 Custom - Kanstul 1525 Flugelhorn - Getzen Severinsen Eterna LB - 70s Bach 180ML37 - 70s Bach CL 229 25C - CarolBrass Pocket - 40 Conn 80A etc. |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6177
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| gbshelbymi wrote: | | CarolBrass makes some wonderful cornets at very reasonable prices. |
These can be obtained new from Thomann.de (50 Euro worldwide shipping). |
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jhatpro
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Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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King White Perfecto
York Professional
York PerfecTone
Conn Wonder
Olds (LA factory)
Conn Victor
Conn 12A
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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ghelbig
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Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 908
Location: Reno, NV
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: NEW Cornet help PLEASE FAST REPLIES! |
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| TheBrassBandMajor wrote: | So, with my budget I would like to buy a proper piston valve cornet.
I prefer vintage rather than new cornets.
I looked up some Holton C603 which was new but it was 800NZD Yikes !!!!
I looked up some York Cornets but the shipping was 200NZD and the instrument itself was around 150.
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You want:
• Good Quality
• Inexpensive
• Delivered quickly
Pick any two; you aren't going to get all three.
You have to have one of:
• Indiscriminate taste
• Money
• Patience
Gary. |
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GordonH
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Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 2893
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Ah patience.
I waited seven years to find an E3L-4 at a price I could afford.
I waited 20 years for a Selmer 19A!
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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TheBrassBandMajor
Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 263
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:11 am Post subject: |
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I've got 2 cornets I could buy.
A Echo Cornet by Tristar or a Boosey And Hawkes Solborn Cornet
Which?? Both my budget
Plus maybe buy a Chinese rotary cornet
_________________
Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| TheBrassBandMajor wrote: | I've got 2 cornets I could buy.
A Echo Cornet by Tristar or a Boosey And Hawkes Solborn Cornet
Which?? Both my budget
Plus maybe buy a Chinese rotary cornet |
Whatever you do, don't spend actual money to get a TriStar. It's not a real instrument.
If someone gives one to you, it's fine for hanging on the wall or turning into a lamp.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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TheBrassBandMajor
Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 263
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Should I buy Boosey and Hawkes?
_________________
Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6177
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| You never said you were into ANTIQUE cornets. |
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TheBrassBandMajor
Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 263
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Yeah but IDC much now.
But still I still least want a cornet less than 1990.
The Boosey & Hawkes one is from 1900's with deluxe engraving.
It's s Solborn Class A with it's case and all refurbished and good to go
_________________
Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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| Back to top |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6177
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:06 am Post subject: |
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If it is that old, I would check first whether it is HP or LP. You do not want a high pitch model as it would not play in tune with anyone else.
| ChaseFan wrote: | In the early 1900's some instruments were manufactured to be Low Pitch with A = 440 Hz.
Some other instruments were manufactured to be High Pitch with A = 457 Hz.
Then there were other instruments which could be either Low Pitch or High Pitch because they came with 2 sets of slides: one set would make the instrument Low Pitch, the other set would make the instrument High Pitch.
Today's modern standard is what used to be called "Low Pitch".
If you own a trumpet or cornet that was manufactured as "Low Pitch" then you can play it with any group today.
Or if it originally had slides for both High Pitch and Low Pitch and you at least still have the Low Pitch slides with it then you are OK.
But if the instrument was inherently High Pitch only (Conn 25B and 27B and 29B, for example), or it originally had both High Pitch and Low Pitch slides, but only the High Pitch slides remain, then you are in trouble because it might be impossible to pull your slides out far enough to tune the instrument for playing in today's bands.
From a Saxophone page that gives info relevant for all instruments:
"WARNING! Note that that Conn produced HIGH PITCH horns until about 1940. Modern instruments, except for some instruments used in concert orchestras in Europe, are LOW PITCH, with A (the tuning note used in orchestras) =440 hz. Some high pitch horns from other manufacturers can be used, if you've got a good ear, because they're tuned to, say, A=442. Conns are pitched around A=457. In other words, you can't play a Conn high pitch horn with other instrumentalists because you'll be seriously out of tune with them! Luckily, Conn did include the stamp "HP" or "High Pitch" above the serial number for these horns that had the odd tuning."
- http://www.saxpics.com/conn/nw_virtuoso.htm
Plus some history from Conn Loyalist:
"High Pitch - Low Pitch
In Germany the bands and orchestras in the mid- to late 1800's played in a pitch where A=440 hz. This is the standard "low pitch" of today (which later became known as "American Standard Pitch" when it finally came to use in the US). However, at the same time, bands and orchestras in France, England and the US were playing in "high pitch" (A=452.5 hz). In fact, in the US, "military high pitch" was even higher at A=457 hz. Around the turn of the century, the use of low pitch became more common in the US, France and England. However, it hadn't replaced high pitch yet. So horns were offered with slides to allow the player to play in either pitch, depending on what was required and what pitch the other instruments were in. In 1917, the American Federation of Musicians formally adopted A=440 as the "official" pitch for the US, and it became known as "American Standard Pitch". Apparently, (strange as it may seem) following World War I one of the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles adopted A=440 as the standard pitch for all signatory nations. Following these events, the production of horns with accessory slides for high pitch declined, and finally stopped. (Source: Tom Meacham)"
- http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/ConnDictionary.html
BTW - my consultation fee for the above info is one 1945 Martin Committee  |
| Dale Proctor wrote: | I had an old (ca. 1908) J.W. Pepper cornet with two mouthpiece bits - one for high pitch and one for low pitch. Obviously, with no extra slides, the horn was originally designed as a HP cornet. When using the LP bit, all the valve slides had to be pulled out a little. It played just OK in high pitch, and terrible in LP, no matter how the slides were manipulated. Sort of like trying to use Bb slides on a C tumpet - the intonation is squirrely at best. I thought the leaky valves were the problem, so I had a valve job done on it. That didn't fix the intonation, so I sold it.......
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
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Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, if you want an old cornet that you can play with modern-tuned instruments, make sure you buy one in low pitch...or, buy a new-enough mainstream cornet so it will be in modern pitch. Your "older than 1990" spec opens up a huge choice of instruments, but to me, a horn made in the 1980's isn't vintage...
Anyway, for newer instruments, a Yamaha 2310 is good, as is the 2330II. Those may be newer than you want, but you may have an easier time of finding one where you live. For older, the 1960's Conns are good - 76A Connquest, 5A Victor, 80A Victor (looks like a weird trumpet), 38A Connstellation. Anything really old, like from around 1900, is likely to have worn-out valves.
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Flip Oakes
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Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 532
Location: Oceanside, CA USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Have a few used cornets for sale...
http://flipoakes.com/category/used-trumpets-cornets-flugelhorns/
I also have a vintage Boston 3 Star I would sell. It just had a valve job done on it as well.... If your interested please contact me at flip@flipoakes.com
All The Best,
Flip Oakes
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Oceanside, Ca. 92056-3421
760-643-1501
Delivering the distinctive Wild Thing Sound since 1994 |
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