Performance vs. Music Ed

[maguro73]

For the OP,
Someone mentioned the possibility of teaching something along the way. A MUED degree can help you learn how to teach even if it is your own personal studio with private students.
However, please don't go out and teach if it makes you miserable! I've seen "teachers" who wanted to perform but didn't make the cut. They are not interested in helping kids and often kill music programs.
Another note; the world of MUED is a tough spot. As mentioned alot of it is being combined. In my school of 500 or so, I am the only music teacher. 1 band, 2 choirs, and 2 strings classes. I LOVE what I do and wouldn't trade it for the world but it is a far cry from the band only teacher I envisioned at age 21.
Rob

[tpter1]

[rockford]

[homecookin]

Mr Hickman,
I know who you are sir, and I also know that you are very fine and well respected pedagogue and musician.
You need to reread my post sir, I never said anything about going back to school to get an education certificate, I stated that many people get it while they're in school then play professionally for years and then go into teaching.
I know this is true because that is what I did. As for myself, I am retired instrumental music teacher ( for 30 years in the inner city) and working musician for 40 years .
I am still a working musician btw.

[trpt.hick]

Homecookin,

Thanks for the explanation, and for your hard work in the school system. We need more dedicated people like you.

Was it difficult to get re-certified? Some states have a short window that the certificate is good for if not continually working as a teacher in a public school.

[tptplayer]

I would like to quote a great jazz/commercial trumpet player who taught a masterclass at the school where I was adjunct for 10 years. I won't name him simply because he doesn't know I'm quoting him. He asked for a show of hands from those present to indicate which students were Ed majors. He then asked how many were passionate about being an Ed major. There were fewer hands raised. "Those of you not raising your hands a second time, Go Sell Used Cars, I don't want to hear that you were a bad band director". While sounding harsh, it's something we all hear about: the teacher not qualified, the teacher not truly interested, the teacher marking time. It's a hard profession. Be certain you have the passion for it.

Carl

[Nonsense Eliminator]

I guess I don't understand why people are worried about the motivation of music teachers.

The school where I did my undergraduate is mostly a MusEd school. Many of my fellow students were (and are) passionate, talented, and hard-working, and have become music teachers I'd be happy to see teaching my son.

But I also went to school with plenty of ed majors who were really into the idea of being music teachers, but weren't really into the idea of practicing their instrument, doing their homework, learning anything at all about music or musicianship or anything at all beyond what was necessary to get a B, or coping with the administrative and general time-sucking demands of being a music teacher. And many of them weren't particularly good musicians to begin with. But, by gum, when they were 18 years old they were "passionate" about teaching!

Would any of those second category of people be better music teachers than somebody who lacked the initial "passion" but had more talent and -- most importantly -- a strong work ethic and a legitimate desire to do a good job? Just because teaching isn't somebody's first choice doesn't mean they hate the idea. Ultimately, what motivates performers and educators is, in large part, the desire to share music.

What determines whether or not somebody is a good teacher is not whether it was their first-choice profession when they were a senior in high school. It is whether they are prepared to spend the necessary time and effort to develop the skills and to do the job.
_________________
Richard Sandals
NBO

[lipshurt]

deciding to teach is something that takes a while, and when you are a freshman or sophomore in college you might not really know yet.

In any event, to be a good teacher of music is schools (band directing at the high school level) the single most important relevant thing is how good you ever got on your instrument. If you never got there at a high level, you are not likely to be able to inspire the kind of practice it takes, or the love of simply making great sounding notes that fit into chords, or making musical phrases. That is what the most important thing is with teaching in high school. And that kind of passion for the nuts and bolts of chords and phrases is about the only thing that defines success when teaching band or orchestra in high schools.

It does not even feel like teaching to be honest. It simply feels like making music, or putting music together, and the ability to do that is largely defined by how good you got as a player, and how much you understood as a player, and how good your ears got, and how good your technical problem solving got when you were a player. High school players are capable of very high level of performance. It does take much longer to get there. So i guess patience is required, but its still all about music.

the other stuff is easy, and if your groups play well (which is a reflection of your musicianship) you generally get cut a pretty good amount of slack with other aspects of the job that are not musical.

Its also important to keep playing and doing gigs and performances yourself the whole time you are teaching. That is constant professional development. And it also keeps you from having your own musicianship defined by your students. That leads to all kinds of weird dysfunctional things.

So go to college and be the best player you can be, get an ed degree, and see if you like it. Think of it as making music, not being a teacher.
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[holeypants]

Great points by Messrs. Sandals and Meeuwsen.

The "follow your passion" paradigm is not the only way to a successful and fulfilling career, and I think Richard hits the nail on the head in his post above.

The fact is, many (if not most) people who love their jobs did not follow their passion, and did not plan to be in their current career at age 18. Instead, their career developed organically (i.e. they "fell into" their current career) and they developed a love for that profession as their skills and abilities grew.

Nothing is any fun until you're good at it, and conversely, getting good at something makes it more fun.
_________________
Jonathan Vieker
The Lip Rip Blues
My ongoing recovery from a torn lip muscle, updated regularly!

[homecookin]

[quote="trpt.hick"]Homecookin,

Thanks for the explanation, and for your hard work in the school system. We need more dedicated people like you.

Was it difficult to get re-certified? Some states have a short window that the certificate is good for if not continually working as a teacher in a public school.[/quote]

Mr. Hickman,
With all due respect sir, let me try this again, maybe I did not make myself clear.
I received my Bachelor of Music Education in my undergrad
, complete with teaching certificate.
I got my Masters of Music degree at North Texas State University
now called University of North Texas of course.
So you see, I did not have to go back to school to get a teaching certificate.

[homecookin]

Mr Hickman,
Actually, I reread your post, and now I see the point of your question
about the teaching credential.
In Texas, at the time I graduated from undergrad in 1974
I was issued in All Level Instrumental Music ...Lifetime Certificate.
I'm not sure that they still offer lifetime certificates.
But that was what they did when I was coming up.
So you see Sir, there was no need for me to get recertified.

Also let me state that I have a great deal of respect for you
as a performer and a pedagogue. Obviously you are a world-class
musician and teacher.
I was certainly not trying to be disrespectful to you, I just took
issue with a couple of your remarks.

[trpt.hick]

OK, cool. I just couldn't figure out why you were upset at the "takes a village to raise a child" comment. That statement was meant to mean that a student learns from all involved in their music education. . . private teachers, conductors, classroom teachers, student colleagues, et. al. I am not used to being called an idiot, at least in the open.

All is good now. Thanks.

[homecookin]

Well, I certainly in no way intended to call you an idiot sir.
And I do not believe that I did.
To me, that phrase evokes a lot of political garbage that I just
don't agree with. But we won't go there.
I certainly see your point that a music student in a university setting
learns from everything around him, Music professors, other music students,
and so on. Maybe we have a different perception here, I just don't think of university students as children, I see them as young adults.
And it is not my intention to beat a dead horse here, BUT, as for the no name dinky school remark..., obviously not all young adults who want to pursue a career in music performance or music ed can afford to go to a large prestigious university with a renowned faculty. Many young people have to pursue an education that is within their financial means and do the very best they can.
But like you said, all is cool.

[k0elw]

[chip crotts]

Interesting topic and its clear no two cases are ever the same.

I started college very immature, knowing only two things: that I loved playing the trumpet and I did NOT want to be a teacher. I grew up in a business oriented family and decided that I would get a Music Business degree and try and combine a "sensible" degree with my love for music. As i neared the end of my degree, I realized my passion (at that time) was playing and I began auditioning for graduate schools. I received a graduate assistantship in Performance and from there, went on to a Masters and DMA in Performance and have since worked professionally for many years. I realized a bit later in life how much I truly loved teaching and long story short, ended up going the college teaching route and absolutely love teaching at the university level and still staying very active as a performer.

We all come at this road a bit differently and you will change A LOT over the course of the next 4 years, not too mention after that. Do what your heart and head say and remember, "there is ALWAYS room at the top for those who wish to be truly great!" Good luck!!

[leahcim]

[KPaultpt]

Honestly...you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars at a top school for music. I would recommend doing a dual degree in undergrad or masters. I did a three year program at Manhattan School of Music getting a masters in orchestral performance and a masters in education from Columbia University.

IN THIS ECONOMY - when you go into debt paying so much money for college (pretty much any top school costs tons of money) It's a necessity to wear many hats especially if your freelancing. I think people should seriously consider education degrees. way to many great trumpet players out there and not enough jobs. 60-100 people show up to every audition. Very few people make enough money to freelance alone.

I also won my job after I left school in a premiere service band gig in DC. It is completely doable to do an education degree, freelance and practice enough for auditions. an ed degree won't hinder your chances of winning a job or being a successful performer AT ALL.

do NOT let anyone shame you for being an ED major and wanting to be a performer too. Its a hard world out there. Many people I know are waiting tables, working at an apple store and baristas because thats what they have to do to make ends meet to take auditions or try to make it freelancing right out of school.

[villagestudio11]

We need more music educators! Do it for love.

[Ryan Satmary]

Just my 2 cents here. I'm currently closing in on my education degree. Not once has it hindered my development as a player, however you may have to have to try harder to squeeze in practice time once your Ed program starts to heat up, but if you really want to play you'll make time. There are many who don't make time to develop their skills as a performer as well as a teacher, but to each their own. It's also very important that you really do want to teach, this is something I struggled with for a long time. I have since come to the conclusion that I do want to teach, it may not be all I want to do since my dream job is having a job in a symphony, but the idea of teaching music in public schools sounds good to me. That being said, there's nothing worse than a teacher who doesn't want to teach, so keep that in mind.

And remember, most public school districts require that their teachers get their masters degree, which gives you a great reason to go back to school to get that performance degree.

Ryan
_________________
8va

[Crazy Finn]