Backbore modification / drilling on Bach 3C ?

jadickson

Has anyone ever tried drilling out the backbore of a Bach mouthpiece? Specifically a 3c?

I was thinking about sending one to the good people at Stork and having them drill the backbore out to their Chamber backbore, just to make the tone quality a bit warmer/ richer / not so nasal sounding. But I'm wondering if that would backfire, if it would just throw everything out of balance and end disastrously.

I know I could call stork and ask them what they think, but I wanted to know if anyone else here has tried something like this. Thanks.

Louise Finch · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:00 am Post subject:

Hi

No, I haven't, but a modification to a Bach 24 backbore and 24 throat for C trumpet is fairly common.

I have no experience with Stork mouthpieces and backbores personally, but I have just looked them up, and I see that the chamber backbore is between the standard backbore (along the lines presumably of a Bach 10) and the symphonic backbore (their version of a Bach 24), and I reckon that it would "work" if a Bach 10 and Bach 24 both work with a 3C.

I however have a modular 3C top, and have tried it with a Bach 24 and 7 backbore (as well as my usual Bach 10 backbore), and I personally don't like the 3C top/24 backbore combination on Bb. I quite liked the Bach 7 backbore, but found the Bach 10 backbore to play the best for me on Bb.

It wasn't the sound of the 24 backbore which I didn't like, more the balance/characteristics, and I found it more difficult in the upper register than the Bach 10 and Bach 7 backbores.

The Stork chamber backbore, being probably between the Bach 10 and 24 backbores, may work well, but I would have thought that it would be a bit of a gamble.

One idea may be to try a Kanstul modular 3C top with either their backbores (which are great in my opinion, except for the fact that they appear to gap along the lines of Schilke mouthpieces) or Warburton or other modular backbores.

Or the cheapest option would probably be the find a cheap secondhand 3C that you could have Stork convert, to see how it turns out.

I hope that this helps

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

JWG · Veteran Member Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 257

I am no expert on backbores, but I understand that the dimensions of the taper has greater importance than diameter.

I love my large bore backbores, but they would play like pvc pipe without their taper. It takes a lot of experience and research to find a good balance between length/rate/diameter of backbore taper and length/diameter of throat.

Take a trip to Bob Reeves or another backbore expert and sit-in one-on-one to test combinations work with each other to keep horn in tune, et cetera, and that will also meet your concept of sound.
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF

cheiden · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:04 am Post subject:

I would try to get my hands on any other piece with the backbore you are interested in. Even if it's a different rim size/shape you may get some idea of the blowing characteristics.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

RandyTX · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:28 am Post subject:

I have a Curry 3C that was done with a 24 throat and 24 backbore that I really like on C trumpet. I don't dislike it on the Bb either, truth be told, but mostly use a stock 3C for that.

Not strictly a "Bach", but closer than a lot of real bach mouthpieces are.

jadickson · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:07 pm Post subject:

Thanks everyone. It sounds like I am looking in the wrong direction.

I just want a better sound from the 3C. I have a Curry, and of course the tone is better, but the rim never feels as secure as I want, and I feel like I am working harder than I should.

cheiden · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:33 pm Post subject:

I think the relatively small cup of a Bach 3C is going to make it tough to get a much richer warmer tone. It's my limited understanding that the largest factor is going to be cup volume/shape, with backbore somewhat less so. Backbore in my small amount of experimentation makes a bigger impact on blow and projection, not so much tone, at least not directly.

I offer this up a lot but, do you like the sound of a 1.5C any better? If so you could consider threading your favorite rim onto one. Works for me.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

razeontherock

Dieter Z · Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:19 am Post subject:

I never tried to drill or ream open a backbore.

However after buying a ACB MV3c I asked Trent if he could make me a custom mps that was similar but with a fuller and warmer sound. So he created the ACB MV3CB which has a slightly deeper cup and bigger backbore.

Result: Sound is fuller and the response is improved
_________________
B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
F. Besson Brevette Kanstul made
B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
Buescher 400 - 225 (WWII)
Benge 90C
Eastman 540 D/Eb
ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing

shofarguy · Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:52 am Post subject:

I'm confident that any major mouthpiece manufacturer can perform a credible job of altering your mouthpiece. Each has a ton of experience to draw from, so ask them. They will know what to recommend. That doesn't mean you will like the result, but you might! We get so angsty about such things, don't we?

If you're going to experiment, I suggest you start by sleaving the shank first and getting at least 3 sizes that are close to optimum. That way you can tell if you have a good result with that back bore or not.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper

There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

Bsully · Regular Member Joined: 06 Jan 2015 Posts: 11

If you want to open the throat bore, it's easy to do. Yo do need a reamer though, no not use a drill (bit). The back bore being a taper would be more difficult.

Bruce Haag opened my Benge 3c to a #22 throat after a lesson. Took about 30 seconds. Lots less resistance now and is helping me to develop a nice sound.

Did this the same week as an embouchure change from low placement to high placement. I could hardly play for a week!

Brian