| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8911
Location: Orange County, CA
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:38 am Post subject: Doubling on French Horn |
 |
|
A million years ago I doubled on French horn with some success. Back then I paid no attention to the horn or the mouthpiece, I just managed. Now decades later I'm in a position where a horn is needed so I'm throwing myself back at it. Anyone else have tips in what sort of F horn mouthpiece could ease transition and minimize the impact on my trumpet playing? My go-to trumpet piece has a Bach 3C rim.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
GSDenshaw
Regular Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 41
Location: Kissimmee Florida
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I have played trumpet mouthpieces with a diameter similar to a Bach 1.25 or Schilke 16 for many years. A Bach 7 french Horn mouthpiece is a fairly large diameter (for french horn) and worked well for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8911
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I was surprised to read that the ID of French horns pieces are generally larger than most trumpet pieces. I always perceived that they were smaller.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
razeontherock
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think the best tip is if your french horn and mouthpiece are a million years old, you might want to clean them out? Haha
More seriously, the super thin fr horn rim is probably what makes them feel so small. I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to have a fr horn mouthpiece with the same exact ID and rim as your trpt? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pb
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 133
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When I played some french horn in college I used the Giardinelli 1 trumpet rim I was playing at the time with my teacher's french horn underpart (I think it was a Giard. too). Not for horn purists I guess but it worked for me...
_________________
___________________________________
http://soundcloud.com/perbejstam |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
James Becker
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 2827
Location: Littleton, MA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cheiden wrote: | | I was surprised to read that the ID of French horns pieces are generally larger than most trumpet pieces. I always perceived that they were smaller. |
Yes, typical Horn mouthpieces played in the US are close to 17mm/.669". While in the UK and Europe Horn mouthpieces can run as large as 19 mm/.749". Just as important as diameter is the contour and width of the rim.
Osmun Music offer the widest range of Horn rim sizes/shapes and cup sizes/shapes in both standard .750"- 36 TPI and metric threads. Our mouthpiece are identified into "sound families" to reflect every regional style played around the world. You can read more here http://www.osmun.com/mouthpieces.html?brand=841
I hope this is helpful.
FWIW The Boston Symphony Horn section chooses to play Osmun mouthpieces because they like the way our mouthpieces unifies their sound.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JeffTheHornGuy
Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2013
Posts: 174
Location: Boston
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I too play on an Osmun horn mouthpiece. Really, its just important to play both a lot. I switch from my Stomvi S14A VR (pretty small) on trumpet to my Osmun C4 (relatively big) on horn. I just play both every day, but to be fair I started on horn rather than picking it up later. I would recommend a rounder cushion rim just so the transition is less polarizing.
_________________
Trumpet player in Couch
Puje "Super T"
1970 Bach Stradivarius 37
Custom Lawler C7
Electronic music producer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9003
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know what mpc teachers are suggesting beginning students play these days, but I started on a Farkas. (Actually, there's a Holton Farkas and a Schilke Farkas.) That mpc is an easy, middle of the road, mpc to play. I would recommend that you give one a try.
I had been using a "designer mpc", a Moosewood, Bill VerMeulen Model and grabbed an old Schilke out of curiosity and man, you could feel the difference immediately; the Farkas was much easier to play. Check it out.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thejoed
Veteran Member
Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 143
Location: Minneapolis
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm a 3C guy and the Holton Farkas MDC gets along with my face just fine, so does a schilke 30.
Horn is always a big ego boost for range, but an ego bust for accuracy 
_________________
72G MLV
Gen IIRL
239
Eterna |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dershem
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1887
Location: San Diego, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I use a Marcinkiewicz 7 - it has a rim a trifle wider than usual for horns, which makes it more comfortable to my trumpet chops. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Albert Castillo
Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 165
Location: Munich
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| James Becker wrote: | | cheiden wrote: | | I was surprised to read that the ID of French horns pieces are generally larger than most trumpet pieces. I always perceived that they were smaller. |
Yes, typical Horn mouthpieces played in the US are close to 17mm/.669". While in the UK and Europe Horn mouthpieces can run as large as 19 mm/.749". Just as important as diameter is the contour and width of the rim.
Osmun Music offer the widest range of Horn rim sizes/shapes and cup sizes/shapes in both standard .750"- 36 TPI and metric threads. Our mouthpiece are identified into "sound families" to reflect every regional style played around the world. You can read more here http://www.osmun.com/mouthpieces.html?brand=841
I hope this is helpful.
FWIW The Boston Symphony Horn section chooses to play Osmun mouthpieces because they like the way our mouthpieces unifies their sound. |
Thanks Jim.
So it would be difficult for a custom trumpet rim (1 1/2 C) to be compatible with a paxman or PHC cup (p.e. Paxman 4B)?
_________________
Albert A. Castillo |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| thejoed wrote: | | Horn is always a big ego boost for range, but an ego bust for accuracy |
Sounds familiar. 
I guess the biggest question you gotta answer for yourself is: "do I wanna sound like a French Horn" or is "like a Trumpet player playing a French Horn" good enough?
Personally I prefer the former and when I play an entire gig on French Horn and it's very classical minded, I pick a proper French Horn mouthpiece to get the sound right. If I need to switch during the gig (or in a big band setting), I use a Vincent Bach 11 mouthpiece (which is big enough to almost match a trumpet mpc). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2654
Location: Anacortes, WA
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've made the mistake in the past of trying to get continuity between mouthpieces for different instruments. The result is that the sound and response suffers. My french horn mouthpieces vary between 17.5-18.00 mm in diameter. My baritone horn mouthpieces are in the 25 to 26.7 mm range. For trumpet and cornet, I'm in the Bach 7 size range. Not sure the actual measurement. Each gives the best response of the instrument for me.
And I'm not even talking about bore size and cup shape and depth. Again it is the best combination for that instrument to sound like I think it should sound.
If you want to play a different instrument, why not play it like that is your primary instrument. Otherwise, why would anyone want to have you in their band?
_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9003
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard III wrote: | | I've made the mistake in the past of trying to get continuity between mouthpieces for different instruments. The result is that the sound and response suffers. |
This has been my experience. I played Trumpet, Trombone and Horn in college and the service and added Alto Horn later. I used the best mouthpiece for me for that particular instrument.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard III wrote: | | If you want to play a different instrument, why not play it like that is your primary instrument. Otherwise, why would anyone want to have you in their band? |
Well for one thing, you may need to switch back and forth during songs. I've played in a bigband that lacked trombone players so I brought my French Horn. Switching between lead trumpet and lower register French Horn is quite tricky. The mouhtpiece helped with that. In the end, I even got solos switching back and forth between horn and trumpet during the solo. That's very hard to do with a proper French Horn mouthpiece if, like me, you're not a professional player. So yeah, I agree with you in principle and I'd go for both a proper mpc and a quick switch mpc so you can pick what suits your gig.
What helps of course is that I use an antique Knopf that sounds fantastic no matter who plays it, even me... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andy Del
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2662
Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
I teach a fair amount of horn, and when I demonstrate on one, I use a a Wick 4 mouthpiece. It’s huge with a very wide rim, so it feels familiar - for me.
What ever you do, switch back and forth...
Cheers
Andy
_________________
so many horns, so few good notes... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2654
Location: Anacortes, WA
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | What helps of course is that I use an antique Knopf that sounds fantastic no matter who plays it, even me... |
For those of us who are horn players, you are making us quite envious. Lucky you!
_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard III wrote: | | For those of us who are horn players, you are making us quite envious. Lucky you! |
It is a family heirloom passed down from my grandfather. Fortunately my mother let me borrow it. I'm quite aware how lucky I am to be able to play it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9003
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is going to get esoteric. If I were you, I would just go to the International Horn Society Forum and ask for recommendations for a middle-of-the-road mouthpiece. Take your pick and don't overthink it.
https://www.hornsociety.org/forum/3-Instruments--Equipment
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
romajore
Regular Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2001
Posts: 78
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I double on horn and recently mellophone quite a bit. For each instrument, I try to find the best player/mouthpiece/horn fit. Then practice enough to be able to switch comfortably. Horns are interesting, because different style horns tend to play better with certain mouthpieces. There are some articles on choosing a horn mouthpiece on hornmatters.com. Also Colin Dorman has a mouthpiece comparison chart on colindorman.com.
Good luck with you doubling. I find it fun. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
