View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
marbalgo New Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2014 Posts: 10
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 3:07 am Post subject: Bach Stradivarius 37 alternatives |
|
|
Bach Stradivarius 37 alternatives
Hello everyone:
I have a lacquered Strad 37 from middle 80's that has a lot of lacquer loss.
I want to buy a new horn that was, like this, a good all-around horn.
Apart from the option of a new Strad 37 (silver-plate finish), what do yo recommend?
According to people's comments, Schilke S32 and S32-HD are good alternatives.
More ideas?. Perhaps the Kanstul 1537 or the Yamaha Xeno 8335 (yellow brass bell)?
I welcome any feedback or comments.
Thank you in advance! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:08 am Post subject: Re: Bach Stradivarius 37 alternatives |
|
|
marbalgo wrote: | Bach Stradivarius 37 alternatives
Hello everyone:
I have a lacquered Strad 37 from middle 80's that has a lot of lacquer loss.
I want to buy a new horn that was, like this, a good all-around horn.
|
Is that all? And is that THE reason that you want a new trumpet?
And why do you want to buy a new horn that WAS a good allround instrument? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
derekthor Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2012 Posts: 480 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
"Play what I play." - Every other response in this thread. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mbradd Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2011 Posts: 385 Location: New Hampshire
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
derekthor wrote: | "Play what I play." - Every other response in this thread. |
Ha! That's funny.
But, if you like your Strad 37, why get another horn? If you're just looking for something different, go on a safari. And looking for something that plays like a 37 but isn't, well.... better uses for your money. _________________ Adams A4 Shepherds Crook Bb
1970's Bach 37 Bb
1970's Getzen Flugel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Bach Stradivarius 37 alternatives |
|
|
marbalgo wrote: | I want to buy a new horn that was, like this, a good all-around horn. |
I think you put that well. It's better to think about alternatives in terms of a broad category rather than being an exact clone. Whenever I've played alternatives, they seemed more like distant cousins rather than identical twins. Anyway, here are a few that I've played recently:
Bach 37 Silver (new one, plays most similar to my 1970s Bach 37, by far)
B&S Challenger
Jupiter XO 1602
Shires Model A (I own one of these)
Yamaha Xeno 8335 (there are several variations on this model now)
And here are a few I've read about or played briefly (but not lately):
Getzen Custom 3050
Getzen 907S Eterna Proteus
Kanstul 1537 (I've played one of these briefly, but it's been awhile)
Sonare TRB-803 (I've played the older German version briefly, but it's been awhile) _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TIJO Regular Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 68 Location: Denver, Colorado
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Give the Scodwell Las Vegas model a try. _________________ Van Laar B1
Yamaha 6310z Flugel
Greg Black mouthpieces |
|
Back to top |
|
|
chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
spending money hasn't been criminalized yet. it's perfectly reasonable to get a new horn after 30 years.
i would call osmun music and discuss it with them limited to the bach line, and pick out a model. then they will give you a discount on jim becker's special horn tweaks and enhancements, so your new instrument will be all valve aligned, corrected, and blueprinted, and will play that much the easier.
mostly the silver 37 should be fine but it's worth the chat as bach has come out with new models recently.
you guys miss out on the LIVE part of live. you are allowed to purchase goods provided you have funds to do so. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
marbalgo New Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2014 Posts: 10
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Perhaps I did not express myself well; I'm interested in your feedback about versatile horns, not in horns that try to copy the "37" sound.
Unfortunately my budget is limited, so I can't afford a specialized trumpet for every kind of music. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bill Blackwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2008 Posts: 1020 Location: Southern CA
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
marbalgo wrote: | Perhaps I did not express myself well; I'm interested in your feedback about versatile horns, not in horns that try to copy the "37" sound. ... |
Your money would be much better spent on a good private teacher than on a new horn. _________________ Bill Blackwell
Founder - Sons of Thunder Big Band Machine
Wild Thing Bb - Copper
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper
Wild Thing Short-Model Cornet - Copper
The future ain't what it used to be. ...
- Yogi Berra |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jumel Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 128 Location: Virginia
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
What sound characteristics and playing qualities are you after? The reason I ask is I've also been on a Bach Strad for some time and I find most other horns don't have the sound character I want. That said, if you're happy with the Bach and you don't want to restore your old one, the new Bach's are well done. I've not tried the Artisan outside of a 5 min play test, but it was really a nice horn. Let the sound you're after guide your decision... and have fun in your play testing! _________________ Bach C 239
Bach Bb 180-38, Melk MTV-525 leadpipe
Couesnon Flugelhorn
Boston 3 Star Cornet (1904)
Getzen 580 Cornet (1973) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JJMDestino Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2005 Posts: 257 Location: El Paso
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
I would take a Shires Model A hands down over all of the other horns mentioned. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2163 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pretty much any pro model from a reputable manufacturer could be a fabulous all-around horn.
Lots of players (you included) really like a Bach 37. I don't. In the Bach line, I much prefer the Artisan.
I owned a Schilke S32 for many years that I liked a lot. (It's the only horn I've sold that now wished I hadn't.) It was nothing like a Bach 37.
My opinion: if you like a Bach 37, by all means get another one. However, if you are curious as to what's out there that's a great all-around horn, try everything that you can get your lips on. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Bach Stradivarius 37 alternatives |
|
|
marbalgo wrote: | According to people's comments ... |
Using that metric, you can find recommendations for just about every single make/model of trumpet you can imagine somewhere on TH. That really isn't going to help you narrow it down at all, quite the opposite. Especially since you added later on in the thread that you are not necessarily trying to copy your 37.
I think at least someone should point out that lacquer loss isn't a big deal. In fact, some misguided folks prefer it that way. If that's really all that is wrong with the horn, you could probably have it relacquered quite affordably. Of course, you could have other wear on the valves or elsewhere that you didn't mention that would raise the cost of an overhaul considerably.
If you really want a new horn, and there's no reason why you shouldn't, the number of quality trumpets available today is quite large. If you happen to live somewhere near a major retailer with a lot of inventory that might be a good first stop. The ITG convention (I think today is the last day) would have been another good choice, or any state music educators convention with a bunch of vendors coming in with demo models to play.
Play testing a lot of models will probably give you a far better idea of what you really want in a new horn over people recommending what they have on their stand. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
A little fun:
Every other trumpet model is an alternative to a Bach 37.
Good, that's out of the way! I think it's easier to find trumpets that are not versatile and eliminate those. Even then, there will be proponents. Of the trumpets I've come across that are not very versatile, the list is short.
Kanstul 1410 Bb/C Convertible. In Bb, this one is pretty bright. Sweet sounding, but definitely bright.
Holton 301MF. Good luck ever finding one. Ed Mann has/had one since new. That one is very narrow focused, bright and (for me) fights the upper register like a boss. Also, it has no bottom register to speak of.
Tiger. It locks you into a narrow fashion palette, unless you get a black one.
Herald trumpet. Tough to play into the stand in a small orchestra or ensemble. Changing mutes is a bear! _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Brian, it's been awhile and hope you're well. The ST301 is indeed the brightest horn I've ever played, but with my 3C 24 drill, or my Bach 3 with a 14 drill, mellows. The lower register is booming and it has a HUGE open blow, just the way Maynard indicated. The upper register is limited only by your air and technique. It will shut down, like any horn, if you don't play it correctly. Maynard played it correctly. It's as far away from a Bach 37 config that you can find, which to me is the most versatile horn I know. Full disclosure: I'm a Bach artist endorser, but that's for a reason, the least of which is my playing
ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
EdMann wrote: | Brian, it's been awhile and hope you're well. The ST301 is indeed the brightest horn I've ever played, but with my 3C 24 drill, or my Bach 3 with a 14 drill, mellows. The lower register is booming and it has a HUGE open blow, just the way Maynard indicated. The upper register is limited only by your air and technique. It will shut down, like any horn, if you don't play it correctly. Maynard played it correctly. It's as far away from a Bach 37 config that you can find, which to me is the most versatile horn I know. Full disclosure: I'm a Bach artist endorser, but that's for a reason, the least of which is my playing
ed |
Hey, Ed! Your Holton was fun to play, as much because the 301 is so rare (wasn't it the first MF?) as it was so different from other trumpets. It certainly requires a specific approach, though. The very first time I tried it, I happened to find that window. The next time, I never did. Oh, well. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just bought my son a used B&S for a song that plays nicely. I believe it's supposed to their 37 clone. And while I don't think it's exactly the same, it's a very reasonable player.
For an inexpensive new horn check out the Kanstul "student" models. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trumpjosh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Posts: 741 Location: Arizona
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
JJMDestino wrote: | I would take a Shires Model A hands down over all of the other horns mentioned. |
I would also check out the AZ model (slight variant on the model A). Resistance-wise it feels in between the A and the AF. _________________ www.milanomusic.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
EdMann wrote: | Brian, it's been awhile and hope you're well. The ST301 is indeed the brightest horn I've ever played, but with my 3C 24 drill, or my Bach 3 with a 14 drill, mellows. The lower register is booming and it has a HUGE open blow, just the way Maynard indicated. The upper register is limited only by your air and technique. It will shut down, like any horn, if you don't play it correctly. Maynard played it correctly. It's as far away from a Bach 37 config that you can find, which to me is the most versatile horn I know. Full disclosure: I'm a Bach artist endorser, but that's for a reason, the least of which is my playing
ed |
Hi Brian and Ed,
Off topic a bit, but what's the difference between the ST-301 and ST-302 Holton MF Horns? I had an MF Horn, bought new around 1977. Check out the proper MF grip:
I'm pretty sure it was the ST-302. I played on it until Claude convinced me to buy a CG Benge through him. Sadly, I think I traded my MF Horn in at Zep's Music when I got the CG Benge. Wish I had kept it, even if just to pull it out once in a while and enjoy it.
Cheers,
John |
|
Back to top |
|
|
qcm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Massachusetts
|
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lots of good suggestions already made here, but another horn to consider is the Kanstul 1537.
-Dave _________________ Dave Edwards
Kanstuls, LA Benges and a Selmer picc. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|