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ltkije1966
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Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1229
Location: Chicago
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 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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I played a Schilke HD. If I was in the market for another C, I'd probably get that one. A Buttler conversion is on the top of my list, too.
I love the Wild Thing Bb. My buddy has one, but won't use it for the Orchestra, even on the pops concerts. He says it's too big and prefers his "okay playing" Bach C.
Solid advice above. My recommendation is to buy a used Bach and get used to it. Then, when you know what you like, replace or modify it. It's hard to get it right on the first try.
Community Orchestra's can tolerate almost any type of C trumpet they has a nice sound and plays relatively in tune. Similarly, matching in a "makeshift" orchestra or a church isn't really relevant. Too much going on.
A Yammi, Bach, Schilke, Benge, etc. will serve you well.
Happy hunting.
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bike&ed
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | bike&ed wrote: | Gee, there's tons of major orchestral trumpet players that write on this board regularly, I wonder why none of them have commented on this particular thread, not even Nonsense Eliminator himself...
😶💬 |
If it looks like a troll, smells like a troll... |
Dude, I was trying to ask a respectfully ironic question, which seems to be quite pertinent. We have had very friendly PM interaction, and we have a lot in common, let's keep things civil. |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7012
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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bike&ed,
I guess I've just gotten a bit skeptical. Someone I don't recognize asks about a Flip Oakes (nee Wild Thing) C trumpet and then disappears...
To many times too many people here have sniped at me and others about Flip's instruments. I feel like we're being baited at Flip's expense. If that's not the case, great!
Yes, the C trumpet puts out a big sound. However, Flip has built some with the new, somewhat tighter, mouth pipe. I'd like to play that version and see if it has tamed the horn down, as it has with the Bb Wild Thing. The new version of that horn is much more workable in a small orchestra and has a more direct projection pattern. If the new version C trumpet is also that way, I think it may be a viable alternative to the normal 229 style. The sound of the Bb is not so different from a Bach C, but with so much more character in the sound, in my limited experience.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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bike&ed
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: |
To(o) many times too many people here have sniped at me and others about Flip's instruments. I feel like we're being baited at Flip's expense.
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Unfortunately, there may be some truth to this. Though I don't play his horns anymore, I think Flip puts out phenomenal products, some of the best in the industry. |
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mm55
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 1412
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | To many times too many people here have sniped at me and others about Flip's instruments. I feel like we're being baited at Flip's expense. |
I think most of the sniping at you is not really about Flip's instruments, but rather about your posts. That's an important distinction. And I think a lot of your posts may be at Flip's expense; it depends on whether you are converting more than alienating. |
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ProAm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | Whatever you do, do not get a C trumpet that is loved by everyone who plays it, one that no one has come across a bad example, one that all reporting players call "versatile", say that it blends in with conventional C trumpets and is easy to adapt to and play. That would be the end of you. |
Oh of course! Spend $3500 on a C trumpet for casual use instead of $1000 for a used Bach or Yamaha.
(I am guessing on the price of the Oakes horn as there appears to be some problem with his website at the moment.)
If cost is no object try Blackburn, Monette, etc. Or buy one of eveything! |
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bike&ed
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I've sat under 2 top-tier pro players using Blackburn C trumpets, both of them sounded simply phenomenal. I've not played one yet, maybe one day... |
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cjl
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: TN
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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When I bought my first C many years ago I chose between a Bach 239 w. a standard pipe and 3 229/25H models (I was in school in Evanston at the time 36 yrs ago which maybe explains why only Bachs were considered). I preferred the 239 and my teacher said I sounded better on it, too. He sounded better and preferred a 229.
As I progressed I put a Blackburn 19-350 pipe and round tuning slide on the 239. That really opened up the horn and I liked it a lot. Later I had the opportunity to get a Blackburn C which was even better.
However, a Bach 239 with a Blackburn pipe and slide is pretty darn good at much less cost. A used Sonare C should also be a good value and real similar (I have a Sonare Bb but not a C).
For me, starting with a Bach 239 with a 25 C pipe (the standard pipe) was the best entry into the world of C.
-- Joe
PS - I have played older Yamahas that, while different from a Bach, were nice horns. |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| mm55 wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | | To many times too many people here have sniped at me and others about Flip's instruments. I feel like we're being baited at Flip's expense. |
I think most of the sniping at you is not really about Flip's instruments, but rather about your posts. That's an important distinction. And I think a lot of your posts may be at Flip's expense; it depends on whether you are converting more than alienating. |
The sniping has been there long before I got to TH, but you are probably right. By the way, I only try to convey my own thoughts here. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone.
I do want people to actually try his instruments. I have tried them and want to do so even more in various settings I have yet to play. I just haven't decided whether to buy his C trumpet or the Shepherds Crook short cornet next.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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shofarguy
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ProAm wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | | Whatever you do, do not get a C trumpet that is loved by everyone who plays it, one that no one has come across a bad example, one that all reporting players call "versatile", say that it blends in with conventional C trumpets and is easy to adapt to and play. That would be the end of you. |
Oh of course! Spend $3500 on a C trumpet for casual use instead of $1000 for a used Bach or Yamaha.
(I am guessing on the price of the Oakes horn as there appears to be some problem with his website at the moment.)
If cost is no object try Blackburn, Monette, etc. Or buy one of eveything! |
I may be missing something as I read this post...
I like new instruments. This thread has the Flip Oakes C Trumpet in its title. I know that used trumpets often respond poorly to new owners because of secondary valve wear that is different from the original owner's finger patterns.
I wonder why so many guys "save" money buying used instruments, then often pay to get the valves rebuilt, the leadpipe changed, the finish redone.... Then post it in the Market place because it "didn't really fit" their style of play. How is it expensive to spend $3500 (or whatever) for something that works in every way now? I'd rather spend the money for what I want. Anything less is a waste of hard-earned cash.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | I wonder why so many guys "save" money buying used instruments, then often pay to get the valves rebuilt, the leadpipe changed, the finish redone.... Then post it in the Market place because it "didn't really fit" their style of play. How is it expensive to spend $3500 (or whatever) for something that works in every way now? I'd rather spend the money for what I want. Anything less is a waste of hard-earned cash. |
I am sure there is someone out there who has done what you describe, but I don't believe very many ever do even one of those things to their instruments.
i did have my used strad refinished, but that was after I used it for thirty years after buying it new. |
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Big Dave88
Veteran Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 479
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | I wonder why so many guys "save" money buying used instruments, then often pay to get the valves rebuilt, the leadpipe changed, the finish redone.... Then post it in the Market place because it "didn't really fit" their style of play. How is it expensive to spend $3500 (or whatever) for something that works in every way now? I'd rather spend the money for what I want. Anything less is a waste of hard-earned cash. |
I'd call that a positive feedback loop or some such. The guys that re-overhaul horns are the ones that post about it. Everyone else doesn't really. Moreover, tastes change, and players evolve. One could just as easily buy a brand new WT, Blackburn, or Monette then decide it 'really didn't fit their style' - which happens often - so that isn't really an argument to buy a new horn or used horn at any rate.
For the OP -
If the playing is causal, get a used pro horn.
If you want to do some serious playing with serious ensembles, get a used pro horn in the Back or Yamaha vein.
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mrsemman
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Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 808
Location: West Brookfield, MA
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | Whatever you do, do not get a C trumpet that is loved by everyone who plays it, one that no one has come across a bad example, one that all reporting players call "versatile", say that it blends in with conventional C trumpets and is easy to adapt to and play. That would be the end of you. |
Too late Brian, mine came yesterday. Yes, I drank the cool aid and fell in love with the horn. I can say that it is as easy to play as the WT. I spent two hours playing it last night. What hit me first besides the ease of blowing into it, was the sound - and I play in the basement. It has a very open core sound. As I have mention previously, I started with an Eastman C, which played very much in tune and great valves, etc., but the sound was nothing like this horn's. The valves move great, the same as the WT, and slurring upwards and downwards is an easy task, even for an intermediate player like me.
Well, I guess, I will have to live with this decision, and enjoy playing it.
Gary
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Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet |
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Nonsense Eliminator
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Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 5212
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| bike&ed wrote: | Gee, there's tons of major orchestral trumpet players that write on this board regularly, I wonder why none of them have commented on this particular thread, not even Nonsense Eliminator himself...
😶💬 |
1. Other than me, most of the guys with orchestra jobs are smart enough to stay out of these discussions.
2. There is only so much Nonsense one person can Eliminate. I'm over quota this week as it is. |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7012
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Nonsense Eliminator wrote: | | bike&ed wrote: | Gee, there's tons of major orchestral trumpet players that write on this board regularly, I wonder why none of them have commented on this particular thread, not even Nonsense Eliminator himself...
😶💬 |
1. Other than me, most of the guys with orchestra jobs are smart enough to stay out of these discussions.
2. There is only so much Nonsense one person can Eliminate. I'm over quota this week as it is. |
See, that's why I post on these threads, Richard. To give you something to do. Where would you be if all the nonsense got eliminated?
_________________
Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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bike&ed
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Nonsense Eliminator wrote: | | bike&ed wrote: | Gee, there's tons of major orchestral trumpet players that write on this board regularly, I wonder why none of them have commented on this particular thread, not even Nonsense Eliminator himself...
😶💬 |
1. Other than me, most of the guys with orchestra jobs are smart enough to stay out of these discussions.
2. There is only so much Nonsense one person can Eliminate. I'm over quota this week as it is. |
Thank you sir, this is pretty much exactly what I was trying to get across, without actually saying it. |
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crzytptman
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 10124
Location: Escondido California
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Nonsense Eliminator wrote: |
There is only so much Nonsense one person can Eliminate. I'm over quota this week as it is. |
Not to mention all the nonsense you helped create in that "total wreck" thread. Fish Dance!
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Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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