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Schilke 14a4a and 14



 
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McVouty
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Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:29 am    Post subject: Schilke 14a4a and 14 Reply with quote

I've been on a bit of a mouthpiece safari - looking for the elusive set that I can switch between for Orchestra and Big Band without too many hassles.

I've spent a lot of time with the warburtons recently - sort of settling on a 4MD with 7* bb for orchestra and a 4S with KT bb for big band though with little niggles regarding my sound production on both.

Anyhow, i found a Schilke 14a4a and a Schilke 14 at the back of a sock drawer. I hadn't played them in years, and last time I tried to play the 14a4a I sounded terrible and hated it, but I thought I'd give them a go as I seem to play best on 3C+ sized mouthpieces and the warburton 4 size felt like they might be restricting my lips slightly.

Well now, my embouchure is in a much better place, and loh and behold the slightly larger diameter and more rounded rim really seem to suit me better on both the 14 and the 14a4a. I seem to have lost that 'stutter' at pp volumes I sometimes got with the warburton. The other great thing is that the rims and bites feel identical so switching between the two is very easy. I was really surprised at how good my sound was on the 14a4a - quite bright but smooth, perfect for big band, although I wouldn't want to use it in the orchestra unless it was to scare the conductor!

So the moral of the story is - don't be afraid to experiment and don't rule what hasn't worked for you in the past - over time we develop as players and I now realise my embouchure development just wasn't in the right place last time I tried to play the 14a4a.

I just need to try the 14 out in the Orchestra now - I have 1st trumpet on Jaws and Close encounters coming up soon so that should be a good test of both soft and loud playing!
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much what I did in college, Schilke 14a4a for lead in jazz band and gigs, 15 for everything else. Never noticed a problem in switching back and forth, though I don't recommend that for younger students.

Brad
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McVouty
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Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the key is to practice on both (as you say not recommended for younger/occasional players) - I find that if I can play technical passages on my shallow mouthpiece cleanly then they are pretty much sorted for the deeper cup. Likewise for range and endurance, if its there on the deeper cup, then I know its sorted for the shallow one.
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Ed Kennedy
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago when I was working at Schilkes, I was using the same setup except that my 14 had a Schmidt backbore and the 14A4a was modified with a bit of "undercut" in the cup and the larger a backbore from the 13A4a.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy wrote:
Years ago when I was working at Schilkes, I was using the same setup except that my 14 had a Schmidt backbore and the 14A4a was modified with a bit of "undercut" in the cup and the larger a backbore from the 13A4a.


I had that same undercut done a few years ago by Schilke, Phil Baughman recommended it when I told him I was looking for a bit more "room" in the 14a4a. Works well.

Brad
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"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to me that the Schilke 14 and 14A4a have radically different undercut/alpha-angle and that going between them could be an issue, that is unless you have negligible lip intrusion.

http://users.actrix.co.nz/mcamilleri/MpAlpha.htm

It's no surprise that someone might want to alter the xA4a because it's too confining.
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Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
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roynj
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Joined: 19 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played a 14 for a long time and really liked it for all situations. I tried the 14a4a but I just couldn't get along with it for some reason. I never thought of having it modified so that there was more rim feel. That sounds like a great idea!
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Vin DiBona
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Joined: 24 Dec 2003
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Location: OHare area

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The14A4a mouthpiece has had changes incorporated over the years to accommodate the requests of many players who bottomed out on the original.
There is more chop room (alpha angle) and the rim has been altered a bit as well making the mouthpiece easier for more folks to use it.
My 45+ year old original 14A4a is noticeably different from the new one.
R. Tomasek
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razeontherock
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Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy wrote:
Years ago when I was working at Schilkes, I was using the same setup except that my 14 had a Schmidt backbore and the 14A4a was modified with a bit of "undercut" in the cup and the larger a backbore from the 13A4a.


Wait what? You're saying the a backbore of the 13A4a and 14A4a are different?
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