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McVouty Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 149
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:29 am Post subject: Schilke 14a4a and 14 |
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I've been on a bit of a mouthpiece safari - looking for the elusive set that I can switch between for Orchestra and Big Band without too many hassles.
I've spent a lot of time with the warburtons recently - sort of settling on a 4MD with 7* bb for orchestra and a 4S with KT bb for big band though with little niggles regarding my sound production on both.
Anyhow, i found a Schilke 14a4a and a Schilke 14 at the back of a sock drawer. I hadn't played them in years, and last time I tried to play the 14a4a I sounded terrible and hated it, but I thought I'd give them a go as I seem to play best on 3C+ sized mouthpieces and the warburton 4 size felt like they might be restricting my lips slightly.
Well now, my embouchure is in a much better place, and loh and behold the slightly larger diameter and more rounded rim really seem to suit me better on both the 14 and the 14a4a. I seem to have lost that 'stutter' at pp volumes I sometimes got with the warburton. The other great thing is that the rims and bites feel identical so switching between the two is very easy. I was really surprised at how good my sound was on the 14a4a - quite bright but smooth, perfect for big band, although I wouldn't want to use it in the orchestra unless it was to scare the conductor!
So the moral of the story is - don't be afraid to experiment and don't rule what hasn't worked for you in the past - over time we develop as players and I now realise my embouchure development just wasn't in the right place last time I tried to play the 14a4a.
I just need to try the 14 out in the Orchestra now - I have 1st trumpet on Jaws and Close encounters coming up soon so that should be a good test of both soft and loud playing! |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Pretty much what I did in college, Schilke 14a4a for lead in jazz band and gigs, 15 for everything else. Never noticed a problem in switching back and forth, though I don't recommend that for younger students.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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McVouty Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 149
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:26 am Post subject: |
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I think the key is to practice on both (as you say not recommended for younger/occasional players) - I find that if I can play technical passages on my shallow mouthpiece cleanly then they are pretty much sorted for the deeper cup. Likewise for range and endurance, if its there on the deeper cup, then I know its sorted for the shallow one. |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Years ago when I was working at Schilkes, I was using the same setup except that my 14 had a Schmidt backbore and the 14A4a was modified with a bit of "undercut" in the cup and the larger a backbore from the 13A4a. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Ed Kennedy wrote: | Years ago when I was working at Schilkes, I was using the same setup except that my 14 had a Schmidt backbore and the 14A4a was modified with a bit of "undercut" in the cup and the larger a backbore from the 13A4a. |
I had that same undercut done a few years ago by Schilke, Phil Baughman recommended it when I told him I was looking for a bit more "room" in the 14a4a. Works well.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Seems to me that the Schilke 14 and 14A4a have radically different undercut/alpha-angle and that going between them could be an issue, that is unless you have negligible lip intrusion.
http://users.actrix.co.nz/mcamilleri/MpAlpha.htm
It's no surprise that someone might want to alter the xA4a because it's too confining. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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roynj Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:09 am Post subject: |
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I played a 14 for a long time and really liked it for all situations. I tried the 14a4a but I just couldn't get along with it for some reason. I never thought of having it modified so that there was more rim feel. That sounds like a great idea! |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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The14A4a mouthpiece has had changes incorporated over the years to accommodate the requests of many players who bottomed out on the original.
There is more chop room (alpha angle) and the rim has been altered a bit as well making the mouthpiece easier for more folks to use it.
My 45+ year old original 14A4a is noticeably different from the new one.
R. Tomasek |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ed Kennedy wrote: | Years ago when I was working at Schilkes, I was using the same setup except that my 14 had a Schmidt backbore and the 14A4a was modified with a bit of "undercut" in the cup and the larger a backbore from the 13A4a. |
Wait what? You're saying the a backbore of the 13A4a and 14A4a are different? |
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