Where did all the serious players/groups go?

[jbeights]

I'm frustrated. It would seem the area I live in is experiencing a serious drought when it comes to finding more serious groups/players to play with. Most players I encounter don't practice on their own, don't come prepared to rehearse or even on time, don't actually know how to rehearse verses just playing through the music and going home, etc... I have also seen many serious players (not necessarily full time pros although some pros too) that have given up sometimes quitting the instrument all together out of frustration.

This seems to be getting worse with each passing year. Am I just living in a hole or is this happening where you live?
_________________
“Breathe and play the first note with a beautiful sound.” –Allen Vizzutti
“Don't stop where I have, but go further." –Claude Gordon

[dstdenis]

I think it depends at least in part on the energy and enthusiasm of the director. Where I live, there are several groups that attract serious players. When the director is enthusiastic, programs good music and uses rehearsal time to help guide the musicians to play better, everyone seems satisfied and enthusiastic. This is what we signed up for.

However, if the director seems tired, overworked and burdened by all the things going on in his/her life, then rehearsals start late, end early, are sometimes canceled, and pieces are run through just once without much attempt to make them better. This is frustrating for members and can sap their enthusiasm.

I'm not saying it's all on the director. Some players will wither and fade no matter how good the director is. But I think the leadership is a big part of the enthusiasm level.
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[Comeback]

[DaveH]

I'm not sure...

I'm with the above post...I don't have any time or motivation...I would need to have a strong performing situation that I really enjoyed and I don't. I'm also retiring soon, and maybe I'll try harder then; or maybe not.

What I seem to see happening is limited opportunities for brass players in commercial playing.

In this general area, it seems to me that most brass playing nowadays is happening in churches where no one is being paid and all the playing is done by volunteers. There don't seem to be many places for bands with horns to play, or where bands with horns are getting hired.

There are some rock bands that do some casual playing in places like Moose lodges, Elks clubs, senior citizens activities, outdoor car shows, various kinds of festivals, etc, but those don't have any horns. I know someone I used to play with who has a trio and 2 different duets, and says that size is all that can work, but I don't believe him and I don't regard what he does as any different that a DJ - in fact, not as good.

I think that if I wanted to play nowadays in a similar way that I have done years ago, I'd Have to take charge of the situation and seek to make my own opportunities as best as I could. I don' t think I'd be able to find something I'd like to do and be willing to put in the time and effort by depending on the preferences and behaviors of others.

[Comeback]

Question for Jeff (OP). Did you get to the Botti concert at the Embassy last night? Quite an experience!

Jim

[jbeights]

[jbeights]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I agree with what you are all saying. I see that too. I don't want to give anyone the impression that I am some sort of Diva. Although I do push myself to play well, I also understand that others don't always share that same level of passion or have the time to commit.

I think its more an attitude than anything. I have played in many different groups with varying levels of capabilities. When you are with a group that has people that want to play well, there is an energy that lifts the entire group even if there are lots of mistakes. I miss that and when its not there it just saps my own energy and then I play worse.

I am also sensitive to the pay issue. Not being a pro puts me in a position where I don't need to get paid to play. Sure its nice once and a while, but it is not my profession. So on one hand I think a serious group of players in this same position could find places to play, but that only hurts the industry of great musicians that are under paid. I don't want to be part of that problem.

So here are some questions.

1. How do you motivate the players that could play well, but don't?
2. How do you get around the pay issue?
3. Is this an issue that simply can't be fixed until society changes?
4. If I could get the resources (music, rehearsal space, etc.) to put together a good group, how do you set the expectations for participating in that group and still keep people?

I am a believer in if you raise the standards and expectations, people will raise with them and work harder. Am I living on another planet believing this?
_________________
“Breathe and play the first note with a beautiful sound.” –Allen Vizzutti
“Don't stop where I have, but go further." –Claude Gordon

[DaveH]

I can relate very well to all your comments and to the dilemma that you describe....been there often and may be why I don't play much anymore.

I don't think there are any specific "fixes" that could be employed that will correct or solve any of the issues you mention.

I'm sure that many people can offer comments, suggestions, observations, or recommendations that may have given them some measure of success in certain situations or have worked for some people. But, I'm always wary of generalities and global assertions to fix problems that may actually have no universal solution.

My opinion is that a lot of what happens is nothing more than pure luck and being in the right place at the right time with the right people. I have played in a variety of situations over a period of many years. Even in the best of them that lasted for period of several years, they eventually broke up due to gradual growth of differences in goals, interests, personal circumstances, etc, among the members.

I tend to not share your view that your standards and expectations will be adopted by others...Maybe if you're lucky, but probably not. Others will do what pleases them. That is based on my experience. Again, a lot depends on the specific people involved. Maybe, if you get the right group of people together...

In band situations, the "personal good" usually needs to be subservient to the "good of the group". That seldom happens or lasts long if it does, and often contributes to the demise of many, many bands...even those at the very top of the business.

I'll offer you this quote from the fictional character Del Paxton from the movie "That Thing You Do"..."Ain't no way to keep a band together. Bands come and go. You got to keep on playin', no matter with who."

I think he was just about right, based on my experiences over many years. For me, I think the hard part has been realizing that in the end, you may have to make your own opportunities and always be ready to find and move on to the next one. I have found that nothing I ever depended on at the moment lasted all that long, that people can be notoriously unpredictable and unreliable, and that if I wanted to keep on going, I would have to be prepared to move on and keep looking for what I wanted to do next.

There may be an exception here and there, but then that is what the word "exception" means.

All just my opinion...FWIW.

[Turkle]

In answer to OP's questions:

[jbeights]

I appreciate what you guys are saying. At least I'm not alone. Others see it too. This may sound arrogant and I truly don't mean it this way AT ALL, but I get tired of being "the Ringer" all the time. (Ringer being defined as the strongest player in the group not necessarily the same as a pro- ringer! LOL) Honestly, I want to be the low man on the pole. I like to be pushed, to feel the pressure to work harder. Instead, many times, I have to work hard to throttle back in order to "blend" with the group. Well, that can only go so far when you are playing with folks that don't practice their instruments let alone the music.

ahh. Well enough of the whining. Back to the practice room...

Just one more thing. Those of you who have the opportunity to play in groups with other solid musicians who care about standards and hard work, don't take that for granted. Its depressing and very discouraging out here in the cold!
_________________
“Breathe and play the first note with a beautiful sound.” –Allen Vizzutti
“Don't stop where I have, but go further." –Claude Gordon

[Comeback]

Jeff,

PM sent.

Jim

[DaveH]

I have found that you don't get any better when you are the best player.

You improve and get better when you have others playing with you who are better than you. Almost like having a teacher who plays with you. You will seek to imitate those who offer something beyond your ability level.

[jbeights]