• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

...


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
KianThePlaya
New Member


Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

...
_________________
Kian The PLaya


Last edited by KianThePlaya on Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Martinharris
Veteran Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2015
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Type in "lip strength kurt Thompson" into YouTube. He talks about the tiny muscles that are involved in keeping the focus of the aperture- once those tiny muscles have been exhausted, your playing will be spread and there's nothing you can do.
Using too much pressure can mean that your aperture control isn't correct and by practicing with pops 0 pressure grip, you'll eliminate that problem.
Using less pressure allows you to use a smaller aperture and get the same amount of vibrancy which is a more efficient way of doing things.
Most of your practice should be at the dynamic MP. Too many people play loud all the time and it just sacrifices your quiet playing and gives you a horrible spread.
Work on breath attacks, lip bends, quiet playing, warming up slowly and gently and not just bashing it straight away.
Hope any of this crap helps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumanjazzguy
Veteran Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2011
Posts: 403
Location: St. Louis, MO…or wherever the Ship I’m on is!

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There're tons of people I'd recommend who can teach you about the muscles of the lip and how you should play before you need to fall to the level of KT and his endless douchiness
_________________
TPT: Nova LA
CRN: Getzen 1950’s W/5.5in bell
FL: Jupiter 1100R
‘Pieces:
TPT: 34-throat shallow double-cup, Chet Baker’s Custom Schilke, Bach Corp 3, Bach Mt. Vernon 6C, Ken Titmus BF Custom(s).
CRN: NY Giardinelli 7SV.
FL: Yamaha Bobby Shew
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
GeorgeB
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martinharris wrote:
Type in "lip strength kurt Thompson" into YouTube. He talks about the tiny muscles that are involved in keeping the focus of the aperture- once those tiny muscles have been exhausted, your playing will be spread and there's nothing you can do.
Using too much pressure can mean that your aperture control isn't correct and by practicing with pops 0 pressure grip, you'll eliminate that problem.
Using less pressure allows you to use a smaller aperture and get the same amount of vibrancy which is a more efficient way of doing things.
Most of your practice should be at the dynamic MP. Too many people play loud all the time and it just sacrifices your quiet playing and gives you a horrible spread.
Work on breath attacks, lip bends, quiet playing, warming up slowly and gently and not just bashing it straight away.
Hope any of this crap helps.

Excellent advice !!!!
_________________
GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Billy B
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6126
Location: Des Moines

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

99% of all trumpet problems are the result of improper delivery of the air.
_________________
Bill Bergren
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
abontrumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1730

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumanjazzguy wrote:
There're tons of people I'd recommend who can teach you about the muscles of the lip and how you should play before you need to fall to the level of KT and his endless douchiness


+1 (KT = Kurt Thompson)

If you're serious about the trumpet, get a private teacher. There is really nobody on this forum that can tell you the answer without hearing you play on a regular basis.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BBB1976
Veteran Member


Joined: 30 May 2016
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 10:59 am    Post subject: what causes lip/embouchure spread? Reply with quote

Hi there

Try and build up sensibly in short concentrated sessions.
Stop when tired.

Happy playing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is something to consider:

Mouthpiece pressure itself isn't dangerous, only excess pressure, which is why so many advise against too much pressure. But the truth is, we all need some mouthpiece pressure, at least the minimum needed to form a seal so air doesn't leak from around the embouchure.

Could it be that when you take breaths, you're putting that mouthpiece pressure back into place before your embouchure is set, effectively forcing your chops apart?

If this is the case, it may simply be a matter of coordinating your breathing and the setting of your chops so this doesn't happen, or learning to breathe through the corners.
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetplanet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 543
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
99% of all trumpet problems are the result of improper delivery of the air.


That's an opinion which can cause as many problems as it can solve... Still good advise though!!
_________________
UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.

https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DaveH
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple things that can affect this situation are:

1. Playing too loudly for an extended period of time. Extended period of time means much or most of the time for a long time.

2. Using a mouthpiece with a cup diameter that is too large. The lips will have a tendency to collapse into the cup.

3. Embouchure technique and setting that favors holding the lips apart rather than lips together.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NYC-player
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 627

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are still developing as a trumpeter. Your body will tell you when to stop playing, and take a break.

When I was younger, I would over blow, use too much pressure especially when my chops were tired and my chops would do weird stuff.

There is tons of good advice here, from teachers, Internet research etc. and I suggest learning as much as you can from just about anybody that has advice to offer....

Except KT. He had some high chops, as do a zillion other guys. But he has alienated himself beyond repair in the small trumpet industry. And is a loudmouth, possibly psychotic jerk.

I'd keep my distance from that guy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetplanet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 543
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC-player wrote:
Except KT. He had some high chops, as do a zillion other guys. But he has alienated himself beyond repair in the small trumpet industry. And is a loudmouth, possibly psychotic jerk.
I'd keep my distance from that guy.


I resisted the urge to "+1" comments to this effect earlier on without adding anything, but this has been succinctly put so....

+1
_________________
UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.

https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
NYC-player
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 627

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard some recordings of KT when he was younger. I think his playing has deteriorated as he aged. But when he was a kid, man he sounded great on some of those MF tunes.

That is a dwarfed by his confrontational attitude, crudeness ( which I don't really care about...political correctness be damned) and his diminishing of others to promote himself.

It's a shame, a guy with his ability could and should be a real player, that people want to work with. But that's not the case. Total D-bag unfortunately
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pete
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 1739
Location: Western Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the time it is caused by playing too loud and/or using too much pressure. Try fixing those two first.

Pete
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jungledoc
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Jun 2014
Posts: 613
Location: Papua New Guinea

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC-player wrote:
... psychotic jerk.
Please don't demean psychotic people this way. Being psychotic doesn't make you a jerk, it makes you sick. Being a jerk makes you a jerk.
_________________
Andy

I'll admit it. It's a TR300, but it wants to be a Strad when it grows up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NYC-player
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 627

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't one be both??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Billy B
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6126
Location: Des Moines

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetplanet wrote:
Billy B wrote:
99% of all trumpet problems are the result of improper delivery of the air.


That's an opinion which can cause as many problems as it can solve... Still good advise though!!


How can this be good advice if it can cause problems?
_________________
Bill Bergren
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
royjohn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 2272
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me take a shot at this from a slightly different perspective. While it does require some lip strength to accomplish lip to lip compression, the need for this is reduced by some other factors. The lips should be set in an "m" position before the mpc is placed on the lips. This accomplishes a closed embouchure. If a little lip curl is used, this tends to increase the amount of lip to lip compression just by virtue of the curled lips pushing together as air pressure is applied. The lips should stay together in position during a breath, which should be taken through the corners. If you take the horn off your lips, you are going to have to reset again with the "m" and the lip curl before you replace the mpc on the lips.

If you get the mpc on the lips with the lips open and without the curl, it's going to be hard to get them together with just lip compression alone fighting mpc pressure and air pressure. Also, too much mouthpiece pressure with the lip curl is going to bottle up the air and keep you from playing, sort of the opposite of the OP's problem. If you let go of the "m" and the curl and push real hard, there will be an open set and airy or no tone.

So it's certainly possible that an open, airy set results from incorrect habits. There will be less tiredness and tendency toward this of the lip compression and lip curl and amount of air pressure and mpc pressure are balanced.

The info above comes from my reading of Pops McLaughlin's books, which I'd highly recommend for explaining how the embouchure should work.
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hvand
Veteran Member


Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 358
Location: Chapel Hill North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

**All of the usual caveats about Internet advice - get a good teacher, practice, etc**

That said, I have learned things from the pages of this forum. Not all of the advice is worthless.

My embouchure often came apart when taking a breath during a demanding passage. You can figure out if this applies to you by playing through a section and inhaling through your nose. I wouldn't advocate playing this way normally. It's really a diagnostic test. I fixed my problem by bringing my lower lip in when inhaling rather than opening up at the corners.

I hope this helps
_________________
Hank van Deventer, Durham Symphony
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetplanet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 543
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
trumpetplanet wrote:
Billy B wrote:
99% of all trumpet problems are the result of improper delivery of the air.


That's an opinion which can cause as many problems as it can solve... Still good advise though!!


How can this be good advice if it can cause problems?


Well it's true that a lot of people's problems are caused by their use of air. I think that problems can arise from mis-understanding what correct use of air actually is though. A lot of instructors will try to solve it by focusing on deeper breathing but this can easily result in overblowing. Hence it can cause as many problems as it can solve.
_________________
UK-based professional trumpeter.
Proponent of the Superchops/TCE.

https://neotericbrass.com/
https://trumpetpla.net/
https://tonguecontrolled.info/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Fundamentals All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group