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BertKremer
Regular Member
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 91
Location: Netherlands
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 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:13 am Post subject: MachesterBrass v s CarolBrass flugelhorn |
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When I look at the pictures of both the MachesterBrass (goldbrass bell) and the CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-L they look almost the equal.
Are these Flugel's realy the same?
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Stomvi Tit�n Bb 170 Flugelhorn Brass Band Edition
Curry 1.5 FLD-B mouthpiece
Van Laar Bb Trumpet
Curry 1.25 FL mouthpiece mouthpiece
CarolBrass Bb Cornet 3850 GLS
Curry 1.25 BBC |
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TrentAustin
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 5485
Location: KC MO
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Not after we perform a PVA and our optimization services on the Manchester Brass we believe it's a much better instrument and better value since we are the sole US dealer and distributor. No "middle men" to up the price in the US market.
Each Manchester Brass horn is personally play tested by myself and my head technician before shipping after our mods.
-T
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This acct will be deactivated as of March 2021. email info@austincustombass.com |
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BertKremer
Regular Member
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 91
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TrentAustin wrote: | | we believe it's a much better instrument and better value |
Better then the CarolBrass?
_________________
Stomvi Tit�n Bb 170 Flugelhorn Brass Band Edition
Curry 1.5 FLD-B mouthpiece
Van Laar Bb Trumpet
Curry 1.25 FL mouthpiece mouthpiece
CarolBrass Bb Cornet 3850 GLS
Curry 1.25 BBC |
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ProAm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BertKremer wrote: | | TrentAustin wrote: | | we believe it's a much better instrument and better value |
Better then the CarolBrass? |
Of course he believes that the brand he exclusively sells is "a much better instrument and better value" than the brand he no longer is selling. | TrentAustin wrote: | | FYI I no longer sell Carol Brass. My company is branching off to focus on our brands and exclusive products. |
You'll have to look elsewhere for an unbiased opinion.
And there is certainly nothing wrong with a salesman having a bias. |
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NYC-player
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 627
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Buddy, don't waste your money. Save up a few hundred dollars for a couple months. Don't go out for a few lunches and dinners. Drink at home. No strip clubs or casinos 
Save the cash, wait, and buy something of quality.
I assume you plan to have the horn for a while. Don't cheap out. You'll regret it.
If you do want to resell later, a quality horn will retain its value. Cheap Chinese horns are disposable and have little to no resale value at all.
I mean do what you want. But cheap is not good, and good is not cheap. |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6187
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| That is very good advice above by NYC-Player! |
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jojocat
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 948
Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC-player wrote: | Buddy, don't waste your money. Save up a few hundred dollars for a couple months. Don't go out for a few lunches and dinners. Drink at home. No strip clubs or casinos
Save the cash, wait, and buy something of quality.
I assume you plan to have the horn for a while. Don't cheap out. You'll regret it.
If you do want to resell later, a quality horn will retain its value. Cheap Chinese horns are disposable and have little to no resale value at all.
I mean do what you want. But cheap is not good, and good is not cheap. |
It always amaze me to see people wearing blinders and waving prejudices as slogans.
I played last week on a student Wisemann DTR250. I owned this horn - this one, not one of the same model - few years ago and played it a lot, then sold it to a young girl that played it a lot. Then the girl sold it to a friend of my son who brought it at my home.
This horn still plays as good as it played when I unboxed it and I,m sure it will serve this young boy for many years.
I have 3 very expensive trumpets at my home and a made in China Kat Acoustic Technology- 350 Euros brand new - that I use as often as the others cause it's nothing but an outstanding little horn.
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The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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NYC-player
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 627
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jojocat wrote: | | NYC-player wrote: | Buddy, don't waste your money. Save up a few hundred dollars for a couple months. Don't go out for a few lunches and dinners. Drink at home. No strip clubs or casinos
Save the cash, wait, and buy something of quality.
I assume you plan to have the horn for a while. Don't cheap out. You'll regret it.
If you do want to resell later, a quality horn will retain its value. Cheap Chinese horns are disposable and have little to no resale value at all.
I mean do what you want. But cheap is not good, and good is not cheap. |
It always amaze me to see people wearing blinders and waving prejudices as slogans.
I played last week on a student Wisemann DTR250. I owned this horn - this one, not one of the same model - few years ago and played it a lot, then sold it to a young girl that played it a lot. Then the girl sold it to a friend of my son who brought it at my home.
This horn still plays as good as it played when I unboxed it and I,m sure it will serve this young boy for many years.
I have 3 very expensive trumpets at my home and a made in China Kat Acoustic Technology- 350 Euros brand new - that I use as often as the others cause it's nothing but an outstanding little horn. |
I'm not wearing any blinders at all. My prejudice is my own. Take it or leave it, I really don't care, as I'm not a salesman, they aren't my horns being bought or sold....so I really have no dog in the fight.
Except empathy for a guy making a purchase. And I want him to be happy with his choice, and not have buyers remorse for going cheap instead of going quality.
You're happy with your Chinese purchases?? I'm happy your happy.
There have been hundreds of Chinese made horns with all sorts of names littering the market. I'm glad you and your son and his friend hot some mileage out of that one trumpet. But the internet is loaded with tons of Chinese horns that can't be sold.
Is it because the buyers just aren't as smart as you? Is it possibly because the horns just don't have name recognition??
Or is it because they are junk, and besides a few players here and there, mostly those horns are being sold as disposable junk options for parents to buy their kid to see if they can stick with it before making a real investment.
Then some of them look super fancy, are more expensive, come with different tuning slides, weighted caps and other goodies.
But I'm reminded of the pig wearing lipstick...
Just my opinion. I could be wrong....but I don't think so |
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jojocat
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 948
Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:54 am Post subject: |
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I just want to say: be careful with statements that looks like Moses laws:
''Cheap Chinese horns are disposable and have little to no resale value at all.
I mean do what you want. But cheap is not good, and good is not cheap.''
That's not true for all chinese prducts. I'm not the lawyer of the chinese horns at all. But you say: buy quality....so buy what? it looks you don't even care. Looks like spending a bunch of bucks is the garantee you'll get a high quality trumpet you'll be happy with for years to come. As far as I'm concerned, with all what I read on the inconsistency of modern Strads, I wouldn't spend a dime on one...
The reason why I told about my horn that have been sold and sold again: I wanted to explain this little horn had ''suffered'' different treatments and still plays and looks great.
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The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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NYC-player
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 627
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:10 am Post subject: |
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My opinion comes from my own personal experiences.....that said, I'm far from Moses.
I'm not going to go into details about the inferiority of Chinese horns. You can do your own research by asking repair techs, players, teachers etc. Quality of build, cheap materials etc
A name brand that players use has earned their reputations for a reason. For a flugelhorn guys play Yamahas, Kanstuls mostly. There are sometimes other US, European, horns that guys use, but I've found Kanstuls, and Yamahas to be the majority. And for good reason.
You can hunt to find a good used horn, obviously, if money is the issue. Right here on the TH I found some incredible horns and deals.
It's a gamble buying those Chinese horns. Are there good ones out there? Probably there are "ok" horns out there. I wouldn't buy one.
I'm all about free market, but these horns are a plague to the industry. |
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TrentAustin
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 5485
Location: KC MO
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Carol and Manchester are Taiwanese, not Chinese (yes I understand the political ties of the two areas and have visited both areas many times). The Taiwanese have been making extremely fine horns for many years and Carol makes valve blocks for a great many makers in the industry.
Typing this on my Apple computer, made in China.
We take the gamble out of buying Chinese horns with our doublers horns and have been for 6 years. We are close to launching a full line of these after 6 years of research and working with these factories for many years. A great deal of my customers can't afford the horns you mention, even used. Why not offer a product they can afford?
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http://austincustombrass.biz
http://trentaustinmusic.com
http://instagram.com/austincustombrass
This acct will be deactivated as of March 2021. email info@austincustombass.com |
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TrentAustin
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 5485
Location: KC MO
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| ProAm wrote: | | BertKremer wrote: | | TrentAustin wrote: | | we believe it's a much better instrument and better value |
Better then the CarolBrass? |
Of course he believes that the brand he exclusively sells is "a much better instrument and better value" than the brand he no longer is selling. | TrentAustin wrote: | | FYI I no longer sell Carol Brass. My company is branching off to focus on our brands and exclusive products. |
You'll have to look elsewhere for an unbiased opinion.
And there is certainly nothing wrong with a salesman having a bias. |
ProAm you make good points... of course I have a strong bias. I also know the issues in the Carol horns out of the box and with the Manchester purchased at my shop we can eliminate them, thus making a better playing instrument.
Either way I think someone would be please with either offering.
Best,
T |
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NYC-player
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 627
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Your computer analogy is a good one. I mean, they are all Asian built, but hear me out.
You're typing on an Apple computer. You buy an Apple laptop ( which in my opinion is a superior product) for $1500 or more.
Now you can buy a laptop for $500. But why by the Apple instead. What are you losing by purchasing a lesser or no name computer.
Options, speed, ease of use, warranty, repair, easy upgrades, applications etc etc.
For something that you want to last, and get a lot of use out of. Why not save the extra cash....wait a little bit....and get the better product. That " out of the box" will work, and work well. Much less of a gamble.
A flugelhorn is not a home purchase, or a car purchase. We're not talking about tens of thousands of dollars. We're talking about a purchase that compares to your Apple computer.
I'd by the Mac over the Acer, or Dell, or H&P any day of the week. |
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TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2415
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| TrentAustin wrote: | | We take the gamble out of buying Chinese horns with our doublers horns and have been for 6 years. |
Worth repeating. And I think this is a big plus for the ACB horns, or similar horns from Dillon Music or others.
But I also respect what NYC-player is saying. In the end, you get what you pay for. That doesn't mean you shouldn't purchase one. It just depends on your personal preferences and personal goals.
I'm typing this in from a Windows-based computer, not a toy named after a piece of fruit. (just kidding) Like I said ... it just depends on your personal preferences. 
Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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bassguy
Veteran Member
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 336
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jojocat wrote: | | NYC-player wrote: | Buddy, don't waste your money. Save up a few hundred dollars for a couple months. Don't go out for a few lunches and dinners. Drink at home. No strip clubs or casinos
Save the cash, wait, and buy something of quality.
I assume you plan to have the horn for a while. Don't cheap out. You'll regret it.
If you do want to resell later, a quality horn will retain its value. Cheap Chinese horns are disposable and have little to no resale value at all.
I mean do what you want. But cheap is not good, and good is not cheap. |
It always amaze me to see people wearing blinders and waving prejudices as slogans.
I played last week on a student Wisemann DTR250. I owned this horn - this one, not one of the same model - few years ago and played it a lot, then sold it to a young girl that played it a lot. Then the girl sold it to a friend of my son who brought it at my home.
This horn still plays as good as it played when I unboxed it and I,m sure it will serve this young boy for many years.
I have 3 very expensive trumpets at my home and a made in China Kat Acoustic Technology- 350 Euros brand new - that I use as often as the others cause it's nothing but an outstanding little horn. |
Is that Wiseman still made & sold? It is hard to find. |
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jojocat
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 948
Location: Baie St-Paul, Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| bassguy wrote: | | jojocat wrote: | | NYC-player wrote: | Buddy, don't waste your money. Save up a few hundred dollars for a couple months. Don't go out for a few lunches and dinners. Drink at home. No strip clubs or casinos
Save the cash, wait, and buy something of quality.
I assume you plan to have the horn for a while. Don't cheap out. You'll regret it.
If you do want to resell later, a quality horn will retain its value. Cheap Chinese horns are disposable and have little to no resale value at all.
I mean do what you want. But cheap is not good, and good is not cheap. |
It always amaze me to see people wearing blinders and waving prejudices as slogans.
I played last week on a student Wisemann DTR250. I owned this horn - this one, not one of the same model - few years ago and played it a lot, then sold it to a young girl that played it a lot. Then the girl sold it to a friend of my son who brought it at my home.
This horn still plays as good as it played when I unboxed it and I,m sure it will serve this young boy for many years.
I have 3 very expensive trumpets at my home and a made in China Kat Acoustic Technology- 350 Euros brand new - that I use as often as the others cause it's nothing but an outstanding little horn. |
Is that Wiseman still made & sold? It is hard to find. |
Searh for Scoutbugle on the net. He's also a TH member from Albuquerque.
_________________
The least we can do is wave to each other
Martin Committee trumpet
Yamaha 6335H
Yamaha 6320
Accent 781 |
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trumpethead
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 444
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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It's no secret that I'm a HUGE fan of CarolBrass horns, and have had my CB horns for several years with no issues ever.
I'm an endorsee for them too, so biased in the sense that I believe in their product. They make great instruments. Period.
Like many of us, I've been in the music industry for decades, and have owned or played most brands out there, of which so many are truly excellent instruments.
For me, it's the value-for-money with CarolBrass that I'm a huge fan of.
If you want to pay thousands more for a trumpet then good for you, I have no problem with that.
Whatever keeps you playing music as there's nothing better for the soul... |
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GuidoCorona
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Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 377
Location: Summerville, SC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be interested in hearing about mechanical differences between CarolBrass slides and valves vs Manchester. My Carolbrass CCR-772 triple crooker with large bell is an absolutely darling with a marvellous tone, and no obvious intonation flaws that I can tell... Or should I say tones (plural), as it is incredibly sensitive to mouthpieces... I do absolutely love this short cornet.
Yet, its 1st and 3rd slides are a little too loose to my taste... They definitely do not compare to the controlled silky smoothness of my Adams A4 trumpet... And the Carolbrass valves, while being fast, seem to require more frequent oiling than the Adams... I use Ultrapure valve grease and Ultrapure valve oil for both horns.
Note, that I am comparing Adams with Carolbrass for illustrative purposes only... I am keenly aware that Adams horns cost almost thrice as much as Carolbrass, and expecting equivlent mechanical precision would be foolishness.
In case you asked... The main tuning slide on the Carolbrass works perfectly... No complaints at all.
Can someone comment from experience on the mechanical differences between Carol and Manchester? How about you Trent?
Saluti, Guido
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Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo |
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ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:47 am Post subject: |
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been super-busy and haven't had a chance to post on the TH in awhile - I just wanted to say that a couple of months ago, I was on ACB website listening to all the flugel clips - I wanted to see which one I liked the best - hands down, it was the Manchester Brass pro model - That's the flugel sound I've been looking for.. Just last week, I was able to snag a used one on the marketplace.. Nicest flugel I've ever played..sound, feel..everything..
I really dig Carolbrass horns as well - I'm sure their new flugel is very good as well. All the best, Lex
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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