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shaolin Regular Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2009 Posts: 77 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Great feedback from all, thanks! Let me toss out a related idea: What about buzzing a trombone mouthpiece as a warmup tool? Might that have a different effect from actually blowing a trombone? |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:35 am Post subject: |
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shaolin wrote: | Great feedback from all, thanks! Let me toss out a related idea: What about buzzing a trombone mouthpiece as a warmup tool? Might that have a different effect from actually blowing a trombone? |
I actually cut my chops buzzing a trombone mouthpiece a couple of years ago. For me, it wasn't helpful. In general, mouthpiece buzzing doesn't really work for me.
Reinhardt didn't advocate it, and that's good enough for me. I say that knowing full well that some people do, and that's totally fine of course. _________________ www.mikesailors.com |
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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Sailors wrote: | shaolin wrote: | Great feedback from all, thanks! Let me toss out a related idea: What about buzzing a trombone mouthpiece as a warmup tool? Might that have a different effect from actually blowing a trombone? |
I actually cut my chops buzzing a trombone mouthpiece a couple of years ago. For me, it wasn't helpful. In general, mouthpiece buzzing doesn't really work for me.
Reinhardt didn't advocate it, and that's good enough for me. I say that knowing full well that some people do, and that's totally fine of course. |
Doc advocated buzzing the lips only with no instrument or mouthpiece. He wanted us to build the embouchure setup without relying on pinning the lips between teeth and metal to make them vibrate.
Mike, any youtubes of you playing valve bone? _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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brassmusician Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 273
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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I took up trombone when I started teaching it to a few students and ended up doing a professional gig at which I think I impressed the "real" pro trombone players because they knew I was a trumpet player doubling but made me realise how crap I was compared to them (it was Fanfare for a Common Man). They were probably just very polite come to think of it.
But that aside I found trombone playing excellent for getting rid of tension and rejuvenating my chops in between taxing nightly shows (well they were taxing for me) like Chicago. I found it improved my breath support. I was never successful doubling on a jazz combo gig but probably because I didn't practice switching back and forth enough.
I find it easy to go from bone to trumpet but not the other way round. A colleague of mine finds it hard to go from bone to trumpet but easy from trumpet to bone.
If I spent a day playing the trombone on a trip I sometimes got into trouble doing a trumpet gig in the evening - my lips being a little too fat as well as tired.
I think if you take up doubling your success can depend a lot on getting your approach right, in particular the ratio of playing you do on each. I found the idea someone mentioned about constantly going back to the trumpet during practice of trombone helpful. |
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JoshMizruchi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 603 Location: Newark, NJ
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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There is something about a deep mouthpiece that can help massage the chops and facilitate playing if you approach it the right way.
I know Reinhardt didn't advocate mouthpiece buzzing but I had this mouthpiece that came with my horn and it was deep, and had a wide rim too, when I was 20. The guy who sold it to me told me it was like a 5C, but it was way deeper than a 5C. More like a 3B maybe (Bach mouthpiece, not Reinhardt IIIB ).
Anyway, somewhere along the line I experimented with blowing air into the big mouthpiece first thing each day. I can tell you blowing air into the big mouthpiece and getting NO SOUND (something Reinhardt did recommend somewhere in the encyclopedia) gave my chops a really nice massage.
I ended up misplacing that mouthpiece and the rim got all beat up so I just never used it again. In some ways, it was good. The big mouthpiece can become a crutch that prolongs your warm up unnecessarily. But all of this kind of makes me want to get that mouthpiece restored and start using it as a warm up tool again.
Playing trombone, from my personal experience thus far, has not helped my trumpet playing. But others are obviously different. _________________ Josh Mizruchi
http://www.joshmizruchi.com |
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Denny Schreffler Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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BeboppinFool wrote: |
His standing caution was that if your "circles" overlap, then you probably shouldn't try doubling. He used to say the circles needed to be concentric (which, according to the dictionary definition means two different-sized circles sharing the same center point) for you to be successful at it. |
New guy here. Had one Reinhardt coaching from a well-known disciple so I’m not deeply into that side of this conversation.
Rejoined the community just today for the purpose of recruitment – if any of you low brass doublers will be attending the ITG Conference in Anaheim, please contact me for a fun performance opportunity.
And to join this particular discussion, several years ago I was playing trumpet and keys (often at the same time) five hours a night, six nights a week, but one or two times a set I’d play some bari-sax-type licks on bass tbn with a Holton 1-1/4G mpc. Felt great. At that time in my life I played on swollen chops and the bass blatting probably helped restore that. Had a full-time Gozzo donut and it was a good one.
I laid off of playing for seven years. When I started playing again, it was in a pretty good regional orchestra – no commercial stuff at all. I also decided to get serious about bass trombone so, in addition to playing 2nd tpt in an orchestra and in a good brass quartet, I was taking lessons, practicing, and playing bass trombone in a community concert band.
Started wrecking my tpt chops for anything.
My tpt embouchure is off center to accommodate a tooth. When I was playing bass tbn once or twice a set for a few minutes at a time as a break from higher/faster/louder tpt stuff, it was beneficial. When I got serious about the instrument, it started centering my tpt embouchure.
Just as Rich stated.
Denny
(hoping that I got the QUOTE thing figured out -- apologies if otherwise) |
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american boy Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Posts: 344 Location: ny
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Never tried a trombone type warmup,but I have noticed over the years that a nice thing for bringing chops into focus after a too loud day/nite of playing,is to warm up on a C tpt.Something about that seems to work..As far as the trombone playing thing,if this is related,I know I guy who plays a tuba mouthpiece after hard gigs..claims it really helps for the next morning. Sorry if this drifts from the topic. |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Hi Denny,
To complete the quoted section, you just need to add this to the end of the quoted section in a reply:
[/quote] |
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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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I followed this thread with interest when it started a while back, but a bit wistfully because I had no bass trumpet or valve trombone.
However, with the school year ending, my band-director wife is having me check out all the instruments to see which ones need repair. She has a dozen baritones/euphoniums (does anyone know the difference?). I found a King instrument that seemed to be hands-down the best of the bunch and started fooling around on it. This reminded me of my North Texas days listening to Rich Matteson, who could play all the low brass as well as piano, but seemed to prefer this instrument.
A light-bulb went off in my head--I could join the low brass club! I've brought it home for the Summer.
I must say that an afternoon of playing this big horn did mess up my chops for the trumpet. I understand that it was because I overdid it. By the time I rested for a couple of hours and got home, trumpet seemed fine.
A thought about "concentric circles": My first thought was to find the smallest trombone mouthpiece possible to make the least difference between my trumpet mouthpiece. However, since we want the circles to be concentric, should I try to find the widest trombone mouthpiece so there will be the least overlap?
So anyway, I'm looking forward to it and would appreciate any little tips about how to start (slowly?) and to proceed. |
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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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To go off on a slight tangent, below is a link to Rich Matteson burning on euphonium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvJEQ5mevLY&ab_channel=BoneMan
Rich has been gone for quite a while and I couldn't find a great video showing him playing euphonium.
But in searching, I came across another great euphonium player who was a bandmate of mine at North Texas, David Bandman. Check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brCwEo-KVGc&ab_channel=DavidBandman
A special bonus, is that the trumpet player on this video is (I think) another great North Texas treasure, Rob Smith. I may be wrong about this but Rob is a Michigan guy. |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Sailors wrote: | Here's some youtube vids of me on valve trombone with the Sardines for whoever asked!
And one on trumpet for good measure . . . this is a trumpet forum after all!
] |
Great stuff, thanks for posting! The lady and I are going to see you play your Hot Sardines show in October at the High Line Ballroom. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent! PM for some comps and I'll hook it up! _________________ www.mikesailors.com |
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aTrumpetdude Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Posts: 74
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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NYC-player Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2016 Posts: 627
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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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This was a treat. Sound in' great Mikey Mike.
Great little unit ( and the band is good too ) seriously great band, and I'm impressed with the valve bone. You make it sound good...which is rare.
Nice one mate!! |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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bach_again wrote: | Mike you sound class!! What valve bone are you playing?
Mike |
It's an old Reynolds from the 60's. Apparently Bob Brookmeyer endorsed the same model back in the day. _________________ www.mikesailors.com |
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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:50 am Post subject: |
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You're killin' it, Mike . . . fantastic! Thanks for including a trumpet solo, too!
Brookmeyer told me (back in the mid-80s) that his all-time favorite horn was a mid-60s Conn valve bone. I finally got one, and although it did play great, it was extremely uncomfortable to hold (I have huge hands) and I ended up letting it go. The best valve bone I ever owned or played was a Bach that I bought from Claudio Roditi. I ended up selling it (twice) and have regretted it many times since (definitely more than twice).
Never tried a Reynolds . . . you sure sound good on it, Mike!
By the way, how many of those horn charts did you write for the Sardines? Very well done, my man! _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:42 am Post subject: |
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BeboppinFool wrote: | You're killin' it, Mike . . . fantastic! Thanks for including a trumpet solo, too!
Brookmeyer told me (back in the mid-80s) that his all-time favorite horn was a mid-60s Conn valve bone. I finally got one, and although it did play great, it was extremely uncomfortable to hold (I have huge hands) and I ended up letting it go. The best valve bone I ever owned or played was a Bach that I bought from Claudio Roditi. I ended up selling it (twice) and have regretted it many times since (definitely more than twice).
Never tried a Reynolds . . . you sure sound good on it, Mike!
By the way, how many of those horn charts did you write for the Sardines? Very well done, my man! |
Thanks Rich!
I wrote the arrangement to the song in the first video. The bands been together for while, so a lot of the arrangements were already written before I joined the band a year and a half ago.
On the record that Decca just released, I did two of the arrangements and co-wrote the title track. _________________ www.mikesailors.com |
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