Horns for comparison article

[bg]

I'm the proud owner of a vintage #3 Committee Deluxe with no bell.

That's correct; I said NO bell.

Does anybody know where I can find a bell?

Thank you.
_________________
Brad Goode
www.bradgoode.com

[Tritone]

I just love threads like this. People try to do the best they can to provide other players with objective analyses regarding specific horns, and then others point out that the methodology is flawed because every one of us has his/her own biases, and ...

Time for a cold drink.

We don't even have objective criteria to define a lot of the concepts that we all talk about all the time. For example, exactly what is "core", and exactly what is "responsiveness"? How do we measure these things, beyond just forming an opinion?? And so on for so many of the terms that we players use all the time. Perhaps each one of us has a definition for what we mean when we say these words, but they're subjective at best and nebulous at worst.

There's anything but uniformity when it comes to opinions among trumpet players.

Good for Brian for being willing to do his best to provide his thoughts about comparisons of these horns. I may or may not play as Brian does. So, do his opinions apply to me, or to another player? I have no idea.

That said, we players are a motivated, often opinionated, and diverse lot. Accordingly, I look forward to reading anyone's (including Brian's) findings about horns that may have some interesting personalities.

Time for another cold drink.

[1957Tim]

It’s been said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I think its note worthy that several elite instrument makers have done their best to clone the Martin Committee. Those outside the trumpet world could care less, however, we who are an integral part of it never seem to completely satisfy our curiosity concerning such things.

I don’t think it’s uncommon for instrument makers to dissect another’s product in their efforts to clone or create a better one. I’m sure pharmaceutical companies develop their generic drugs in a similar fashion. I think it’s a basic principle of business, if a new product works for company A, company B will soon come up with their version of it.

How many different mouthpiece makers have entered the marketplace over the past 10-20 years? I’m sure each one had an idea of how to improve on another’s product. I’ve heard/read that never in the history of brass instruments have players had a better selection of horns and mouthpieces to choose from. I love that!

I had the opportunity to attend one day of the ITG with Brian (Shofarguy). It was fun hearing him play and talk about the various horns that he tried. He has a great ear and the unique ability to put what he hears into words. I believe most of us here enjoy reading his analytical posts even if we don’t share his opinion. I can’t wait to see what Brian has to say about this 1603 Kanstul horn.

-1957Tim

[sounds7]

[sounds7]

@Crazy Finn I remembered one more trumpet that was highly based off the Martin Committee #3, Holton MF Horn. It has the same exact bell flare as the committee's did as well as the reverse tuning slide (Not sure about the lead pipe though). Martin horns were still around when it was being made.

[scipioap]

[Crazy Finn]

[Dr. Manhattan]

Hi Everybody!
Having lurked for a while and enjoying the many interesting posts/discussions on this forum, I decided to join.

Regarding Martin Committee trumpets:
I do have a Committee and love how it plays.
I also have an older CG Benge that plays well which leads to me Kanstul's clone of the Committee. I am really interested in hearing more feedback about this horn as well as seeing one in person.

Cheers!
_________________
Several Trumpets and Flugelhorns!
Trying to thin the small herd!!

[shofarguy]

I'm going to use this thread to post pictures and comparisons between the Martin Committee that Winghorn sent me and the Kanstul 1603 Handcraft. If I can include the Schilke HC I will. There has been an HC2 over at Milano's, so perhaps Josh can hook me up with it in their warehouse for trial.

I have just one week left before both horns go back to their respective owners, so finding a Lawler or Adams is probably out.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[James Becker]

I'll share what I know about the Kenosha Leblanc USA Committee trumpets to clarify the differences with the original Elkhart models.

According to Holton MF Horn designer Larry Ramirez, the leapipes on the Kenosha Martin T3460 and T3465 are Martin Committee tapers. The bell however is not the original shape, but a Martin bell shape form another Martin model (perhaps a Magna? I can't say for sure). Larry explained that this bell was favored for it's improved play ability and intonation over the original. In addition the main tuning slides on Kenosha Martin Committees are NOT stepped bore and DO NOT have tapered crooks.

What we've done to bring the Kenosha Committees better in line with the original is to replace the upper reversed slide with a .453" M bore tube providing a more faithful step bore. Unfortunately the main tuning slide crook is cylindrical.

Some years ago we had access to NOS Elkhart Committee bells that we've installed on Kenosha Commitee trumpets. The final "icing on the cake" includes Sherry Huntley's hand engraving of the Elkhart Committee pattern.

Attention Brad Goode, We have one of these Elkhart Committe #3 bells available with hand engraving.

My observation of Larry's MF Horn design it was built on a Martin #3 valve set, has a high compression leadpipe and cylindrical .468" main tuning slide, and fitted with a bell similar to the Bach 72.

Not that long ago we had the opportunity to piece together a box of Martin parts for Wallace Roney. The valve set was a T3465, we mounted a gold brass NOS Elkhart Martin bell, a Kenosha leadpipe with .453" top tube, a T3460 .460" crook with a .462" lower tube transitioning into the .465" valve set. Wallace was extremely pleased with the results of our effort to bring his Kenosha Martin parts horn closer to his ideal.

I hope this is helpful.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

[James Becker]

One more thing about Martin Committee trumpets, Elkhart, Kenosha, or their replicas.

I'd be interested in hearing how well 3rd valve combinations play, G# in particular. Is the pitch right on or a bit flat?

I look forward to your replies.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

[shofarguy]

[shofarguy]

[James Becker]

The reason I brought it up in the first place was to draw attention to the fact that the majority of Elkhart #3 bore Martin Committee 3rd slides need little movement for low D and C# due to being built too long. You'll noticed when playing an A major scale how the G# is a painfully flat leading tone. I've been told that Chris Botti has trouble with his 2-3 combinations and I'm fairly certain this is why.

Hopefully this is not the case with the modern Committee inspired replicas.

I'm not adverse to giving a slide a "hair cut" when needed to raise a flat note, a common fix for a flat D on many C tumpets.
_________________
James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

[vwag]

I too hope this article happens even with the admitted bias. After spending a couple of hours at a music store, I was completely blown away (unexpectedly) by the Adams A9. I'm an amateur but had never experienced the feel of that horn. I'll have to post my experience in a separate thread. I play a Schilke B5 and didn't have that type of experience when I tried the Schilke Handcraft at their factory.

[shofarguy]