Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 1668 Location: West Medford, MA
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:56 pm Post subject:
NYC-player wrote:
Universities in the US...especially state run schools are nothing but a social jobs program that keeps tens of thousands employed, but turns out worse and worse graduates year after year.
The US was number one in education in the world, but have been on a downward slope since the 60s. I think we hover around number 17 now.
Our public education system defiantly needs a revamp, or at least a dose of reality pills. They are too busy with agenda politics and social indoctrination to worry about making sure students are prepared for the real world, know how to get and keep a job, and have a firm grip on the way the world really works outside of academia.
I can't agree in total, but I understand the sentiment. Meanwhile:
...who was that old dude with the cornet who muttered something about developing skills in a trade to tide you through the lean times in the music biz? He might have also written that advice down somewhere, if I could just find it! That was during the heyday of the live band, pre-electricity and just maybe even before the ascendance of the trumpet, si?
Sage advice. But we live in a time where the ad pitches: "army of one" and "live your dream" are each peddled to those who wish to remain uneducated Valhalla-bound or lotus-eating earthly spirits. Pick your poison. _________________ kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 635 Location: New Orleans
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:03 pm Post subject:
shofarguy wrote:
bach_again wrote:
NYC-player wrote:
Drag he's not making the horn in a medium bore
My thoughts exactly!!
I wonder if the valve throw is the same as the committee was.
When I talked to Troy, one of the areas he said were yet to be decided was the configuration of the first valve port placement. The Martin had 90 degree, stacked ports. Signature Kanstul (and just about everyone else's) ports are such that the top port tube exits at a 45 degree angle moving the tube toward the valve block center line and creating a tilt of the half-turn bowl. Troy said the latter would make it easy for him, since the 1603 would then be able to use existing pistons, but he admitted that that would be different from a real Committee.
My assumption, then, is that the 1603 has the same throw as other Kanstul trumpets.
Honestly you have to go with the 90 degree if you advertise that it is an exact copy of the #3. Otherwise it is not.
I wonder if the valve throw is the same as the committee was.
When I talked to Troy, one of the areas he said were yet to be decided was the configuration of the first valve port placement. The Martin had 90 degree, stacked ports. Signature Kanstul (and just about everyone else's) ports are such that the top port tube exits at a 45 degree angle moving the tube toward the valve block center line and creating a tilt of the half-turn bowl. Troy said the latter would make it easy for him, since the 1603 would then be able to use existing pistons, but he admitted that that would be different from a real Committee.
My assumption, then, is that the 1603 has the same throw as other Kanstul trumpets.
Honestly you have to go with the 90 degree if you advertise that it is an exact copy of the #3. Otherwise it is not.
I know, but none of the manufacturers that make renditions of the Martin claim to be making an exact clone. All the others claim to have gotten the sound, but "made improvements" in areas of intonation and slotting, yada, yada, yada. Only Kanstul claims to have produced a version that plays like a Martin. Theirs also looks pretty close, except for valve buttons and the first valve configuration (of the one I have). Only Lawler makes their version with the two 90 degree bends on the first valve, unless Kanstul decides to go with it, also. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Chet was most likely playing a 38B Conn Connstellation which he switched to in 1956.
Does anyone else get the feeling that Chet's mouthpiece gap is wa-a-ay too big and that he is fighting the horn to get decent articulation? _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 2197 Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:13 am Post subject:
even if they went with the 90 it's still .470 and not .468
so it wouldn't be a clone anyway right?? _________________ ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com http://highdefinitionbigband.com
Chet was most likely playing a 38B Conn Connstellation which he switched to in 1956.
Does anyone else get the feeling that Chet's mouthpiece gap is wa-a-ay too big and that he is fighting the horn to get decent articulation?
Chet had some nice melody ideas...harmonically simple, but very pretty. Besides that...kind of a lousy trumpeter. After he lost his teeth, I think his sound improved oddly
Chet was most likely playing a 38B Conn Connstellation which he switched to in 1956.
Does anyone else get the feeling that Chet's mouthpiece gap is wa-a-ay too big and that he is fighting the horn to get decent articulation?
Chet had some nice melody ideas...harmonically simple, but very pretty. Besides that...kind of a lousy trumpeter. After he lost his teeth, I think his sound improved oddly
Chet was actually a good player in the early days, He never was an uptempo bebopper and never played much in the upper range. He had a beautiful voice on the Trumpet. Drugs really did a number on him later on.
Chet was most likely playing a 38B Conn Connstellation which he switched to in 1956.
Does anyone else get the feeling that Chet's mouthpiece gap is wa-a-ay too big and that he is fighting the horn to get decent articulation?
Chet had some nice melody ideas...harmonically simple, but very pretty. Besides that...kind of a lousy trumpeter. After he lost his teeth, I think his sound improved oddly
Chet was actually a good player in the early days, He never was an uptempo bebopper and never played much in the upper range. He had a beautiful voice on the Trumpet. Drugs really did a number on him later on.
Yep, he had a pretty sound, and got his bones with the cool jazz guys. But his ideas, were very "inside" and mostly simple variations on melodies at best. Non of the hipness with harmonies and alterations that lots of guts from the cool school had.
For jazz stuff, I don't care about upper register stuff, rather hear interesting ideas and collaboration with the rest of the unit. Chet played pretty...looked pretty...but boring to me.
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 635 Location: New Orleans
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:24 am Post subject:
I think chets real strength other than his tone was thematic development. Check out Chet Baker and Gerry Mulligan @Carnigie Hall. Track 6 Bernies Tune. Some real nice blowing on that up tempo track. I mean yeah he wasn't an outside player at all and basically played inside the changes using thematic and Rhythmic material for development.
I think chets real strength other than his tone was thematic development. Check out Chet Baker and Gerry Mulligan @Carnigie Hall. Track 6 Bernies Tune. Some real nice blowing on that up tempo track. I mean yeah he wasn't an outside player at all and basically played inside the changes using thematic and Rhythmic material for development.
Great album. I've been listening to Lee Konitz all afternoon...love that smart cool jazz era.
If I can get that information from Troy, at the factory, I'll likely include it in the article. In the mean time, what does "step bore" mean to you and why is it important? _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 635 Location: New Orleans
Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:23 pm Post subject:
@ Brian Step bore means the bore size changes throughout the instrument. With a step bore trumpet the expantion of the bore is acheived with a series of progressively larger cylindrical tubes. In most step bore design trumpets the tapers of the mouthpipe and bell represent the same amount of conical to cylindrical proportions as non step bore model trumpets. Lawler for example made a C7 which was a step bore horn and he also made the C7c which was the same bore through out the horn. Martin Committees where step bore horns .
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3630 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:02 am Post subject:
shofarguy wrote:
sounds7 wrote:
@Brian Is the 1603 a step bore horn?
If I can get that information from Troy, at the factory, I'll likely include it in the article. In the mean time, what does "step bore" mean to you and why is it important?
The #3 Committee had a medium bore leadpipe, a tapered tuning crook (medium - large bore) and a large bottom tuning slide. So I'd say you had a step bore with a tapered connection. I happened to play the Kanstul, Adams, and Lawler versions of this design (or whatever their interpretation of it was) at ITG, and I thought they all played well in their own way, the Kanstul coming closest to the original.
But keep in mind that I favor Benge, so people who really play Martins should be the ones to judge. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
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Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 61 Location: Tecumseh, MI
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:03 pm Post subject: Kanstul Martin Copy - any news???
Brian,
How close are you to posting your detailed review of the new Kanstul 1603?
I am really interested in reading it! _________________ Richard Harris
Monette MF Prana
1940 Martin Handcraft Committee #3 Large Bore
Yamaha 8335 LA II Bergeron Custom
Yamaha 8340 EM Eric Miyashiro
Schilke Handcraft HC1
Taylor Phatboy Flugelhorn
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 635 Location: New Orleans
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject:
I am too believe it or not. I am also contacting Wallace Roney about these horns. My Martin Committee #3 turns 70 years old this year and even though Charlie Melk has extended its life with his restore work, it would be good to know there is a modern horn that is close to what I have enjoyed for so long that could likely become the replacement one day. _________________ 47 Martin Committee #3
Buescher lightweight 400 228
Buescher lightweight 400 217
Taylor/Harrelson/MAW
Warburton model 235
Stomvi Mambo #5
Conn constellation 38a cor.
Courtois 301 Orchestra C
Yamaha Custom 9830 pic
Yamaha 731 /Harrelson mod
Shofarguy, I think Chet wanted that sound, sort of under-blown, under-tongued.
I thought I heard a lot of chipped notes that were slow to begin when he used a more gentle attack. The clean attacks were quite aggressive, to my ear, and had a bit of sforzando ring. To me, that's what happens if I use a sleeve that gives me much too great a gap. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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