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Jersey-Jazz New Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2016 Posts: 3 Location: Norman, OK
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:47 pm Post subject: Kanstul 25-0 or 43 lead-pipe on Flip Oakes Wild Thing |
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I am needing some input from the wild Child Wild Thing owners out there. I picked up an older 2007 Silver Wild Thing last year on EBay and while I loved the sound it seemed like it took a lot of air through the horn so I sold it. I would like to maybe purchase a Copper Bell Wild thing and recently contacted Flip and asked him what lead pipe he puts on his horns. He told me up until April of 2013 he had a 25-0 pipe and since then all the newer Wild Things get a 43 pipe. He said that the 43 pipe has a little more resistance to the blow. With that being said; all of my research says that the 43 pipe is more open than the 25-0???? Would like some feed back as to which pipe would be better suited for a copper bell Wild Thing? _________________ 1975 Bach Strad 37 b flat
Bach Strad 37 C
1965 Calicchio 2/2
Tulsa Calicchio DT3/S1S
Callet Jazz
Callet Sima
1960 Olds Recording
1937 Martin Handcraft Imperial
Selmer 24B K Modified
Selmer Sigma
Yamaha Flugel |
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Bill Blackwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2008 Posts: 1020 Location: Southern CA
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Kanstul 25-0 or 43 lead-pipe on Flip Oakes Wild Thing |
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Jersey-Jazz wrote: | I am needing some input from the wild Child Wild Thing owners out there. I picked up an older 2007 Silver Wild Thing last year on EBay and while I loved the sound it seemed like it took a lot of air through the horn so I sold it. I would like to maybe purchase a Copper Bell Wild thing and recently contacted Flip and asked him what lead pipe he puts on his horns. He told me up until April of 2013 he had a 25-0 pipe and since then all the newer Wild Things get a 43 pipe. He said that the 43 pipe has a little more resistance to the blow. With that being said; all of my research says that the 43 pipe is more open than the 25-0???? Would like some feed back as to which pipe would be better suited for a copper bell Wild Thing? |
I have two WT Bbs - one of each of the two configurations. Both have a copper bell.
Your information is incorrect - The original (25-0) version is definitely more open compared to the newer 43 version. The 43 pipe is tighter.
I would say the new configuration is more "accessible" to most players with very little, if any, adjustment period if coming off of most 460 bored instruments. I would highly recommend this setup with the 2 slide if you felt the original version was too 'big'. Later you can transition into the 1 slide (you get both 1 & 2 slides when you buy a WT). The 1 slide is my personal preference on the 43 version.
The original version with the 2 slide might feel 'comparable' to the 43 version with the 1 slide to some, but the blow is not the same. So it goes without saying that the 1 slide on the 25-0 version would feel more open compared to the 1 slide on the 43 version.
The copper bell produces darker overtones and might feel slightly less open to some compared to a brass bell.
Feel free to PM me if you have any further questions. _________________ Bill Blackwell
Founder - Sons of Thunder Big Band Machine
Wild Thing Bb - Copper
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper
Wild Thing Short-Model Cornet - Copper
The future ain't what it used to be. ...
- Yogi Berra |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2164 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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The 43 leadpipe is more open than the 25, but a 25-O may be a different story.
The Wild Thing trumpets I have played over the years have all had a beautiful sound, but were just too open for me. Maybe the openness is part of the secret of the sound. I dunno. I would try the variouly leadpipe variations but in the end, the Wild Thing may just not be the horn for you. Doesn't Flip make a smaller bore horn called the Celebration? Maybe this would be a better fit.
Steve Allison |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7012 Location: AZ
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Usable
The new horn is more usable for more players in more situations. Originally, the Wild Thing was designed for one person, Flip Oakes, who played 7 days a week and as many as four gigs a day. He played in all kinds of venues including outdoors. He played in Dixieland jazz combos where he was the only trumpet. Often, he didn't have amplification. So, the trumpet he developed met those criteria and it was so successful that Flip ended up having to go into business to meet the demand.
What I found with my first, original-spec, Wild Thing is that it seemed to always dominate every ensemble I played in, unless that ensemble was populated by strong amateur, semi-professional players or if the ensemble used amplification. In small, especially low-level amateur groups, it was hard to scale back enough to balance my volume with the rest. Especially when the music required forte dynamics, the horn could easily be too assertive. At least, it seemed that way.
The new lead pipe brings the size of that sound down to where it fits in more groups. Don't get me wrong, the Wild Thing still is a formidable instrument that can fulfill any requirement. But the player isn't forced to overrun a small group of violins or required to bury the bell in the music stand to keep from obliterating a handbell choir, like the original.
Also, the upper register resistance is more linear than before, meaning it gives the player more support, but still doesn't shut down. Definitely, a WT player needs to have a good, supported air column and develop lung capacity to take full advantage of this horn's capabilities (it's not a "super efficient" studio microphone diva), but not to Arturo levels. A good player can do it. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Zero experience here with Flip's older leadpipe, but when I bought my WT new from Flip a few years ago I was quite surprised. Meaning, I was a bit intimidated by the WT "number" (470), thinking that I would need oxygen by the end of a typical four hour gig. The opposite proved true for me, and I'm far from being a "monster player." I did briefly own a used Celebration also, to me it was very similar, the difference being that the sound to me seemed a bit more focused. I would think that's due to the slightly smaller bell, but I don't know enough about brass instrument acoustics to say if that's correct.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Jersey-Jazz New Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2016 Posts: 3 Location: Norman, OK
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the input. Looks like the 43 pipe is the way to go at least in my situation. _________________ 1975 Bach Strad 37 b flat
Bach Strad 37 C
1965 Calicchio 2/2
Tulsa Calicchio DT3/S1S
Callet Jazz
Callet Sima
1960 Olds Recording
1937 Martin Handcraft Imperial
Selmer 24B K Modified
Selmer Sigma
Yamaha Flugel |
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