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UpNorth
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Location: Finland
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 Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:42 am Post subject: Aperture adjustment when ascending to high register |
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I've a problem when trying to ascend over high C. I think that I have enough air pressure and compression, but I think my aperture gets almost fully closed over high C and I cant get pretty much anything out of horn because of that.
Any help with opening the aperture up there? |
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JVL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:24 am Post subject: |
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hello
i'd buy a visualizer, and play like if it was a mpc, to see what's happening.
Then, try to maintain an adequat aperture while ascending, without going too open. Build the coordination and strength progressively.
Don't forget the abdominal support, and tongue level.
Transfer it to mpc/horn practice, noting also that you must play with a more open aperture on a shallow mpc than on a deeper one, same according to volume (forte or piano).
Bobby Shew wrote very helpful articles about it, and exercises.
best |
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Pops
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:14 am Post subject: |
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IT could be too much lip curl, rolling the lower lip over the teeth, overlapping the lips, lip compression, mouthpiece pressure...
BTW tongue levels is slightly misnamed. Just raising the tongue is not 1/10 as important as anchor tonguing and using the arch against the teeth.
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MF Fan
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JVL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Pops wrote: | IT could be too much lip curl, rolling the lower lip over the teeth, overlapping the lips, lip compression, mouthpiece pressure...
BTW tongue levels is slightly misnamed. Just raising the tongue is not 1/10 as important as anchor tonguing and using the arch against the teeth. |
You're right Pops, but my english is approximative and i just wanted to put the OP on some tracks, and considering all the factors involved in such a subject (facial/buccal muscles, air, tongue, jaw, embouchure, etc.), the best is always to go to a good teacher.
You, Bobby, etc. could help him 
best |
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UpNorth
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Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, for the quick informative replies.
I looked closely what really happens with my lips, it seems to be that there actually is some overlapping of the lips. My top lip goes over the bottom lip when ascending.
Any hints how to get rid of that? Has anybody else such problem?
I've also noticed that my lower jaw is receded when ascending (maybe the main reason for overlapping in my case). If i try to push the lower jaw to more forward position, it seems to be unnatural position for me... |
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JVL
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:34 am Post subject: |
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By making a light adequat extension of the neck (like pointing down the head, or perhaps better said, pointing down the chin), your jaw will be better aligned, automatically, without you doing consciously this movement.
Lip buzzing (done the right way, that's why a good teacher is needed) will also help, and you can in a first time, as taught by Bobby Shew, use your fingers slightly on the lips to simulate the rim mpc, what will help to coordinate better without too much stress
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solo soprano
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Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Aperture adjustment when ascending to high register |
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| UpNorth wrote: | I've a problem when trying to ascend over high C. I think that I have enough air pressure and compression, but I think my aperture gets almost fully closed over high C and I cant get pretty much anything out of horn because of that.
Any help with opening the aperture up there? |
This may help?
"Here is a habit you should cultivate if you don't have it already. Just before you play, stick your tongue into the cup of the mouthpiece. (Then articulate with the tongue inside your mouth, as usual.) This little habit will accomplish two things. It will keep the lips moist, and it will keep the aperture from pinching together."
William B Knevitt
Among other things, if practiced properly, this method teaches the proper size "aperture" for high note playing, while allowing you to move throughout the entire range of the horn without using an "embouchure shift.
http://www.latorremusic.com/La_Torre_Music/Upper_Register_Development.html
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Lionel
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Aperture adjustment when ascending to high register |
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| solo soprano wrote: | | UpNorth wrote: | I've a problem when trying to ascend over high C. I think that I have enough air pressure and compression, but I think my aperture gets almost fully closed over high C and I cant get pretty much anything out of horn because of that.
Any help with opening the aperture up there? |
This may help?
"Here is a habit you should cultivate if you don't have it already. Just before you play, stick your tongue into the cup of the mouthpiece. (Then articulate with the tongue inside your mouth, as usual.) This little habit will accomplish two things. It will keep the lips moist, and it will keep the aperture from pinching together."
William B Knevitt
Among other things, if practiced properly, this method teaches the proper size "aperture" for high note playing, while allowing you to move throughout the entire range of the horn without using an "embouchure shift.
http://www.latorremusic.com/La_Torre_Music/Upper_Register_Development.html |
That's an interesting concept Solo Soprano and thank you for bringing it up. I've done exactly the same thing myself for a long time. However I kinda cultivated the technique more in the middle and lower registers first. Not that I don't use it upstairs either. Yet it was an air/embouchure direction tongue trick that I used. First working in my middle and lower registers and then as control developed took it on up. Practicing bell tone attacks this way really opened the tone up in all registers.
At first I thought that this was a technique just for getting a bigger sound on the shallower mouthpieces. And it really does help this way. Especially if the "pea shooter" mouthpiece is really small. Like down in the old Jet-tone or Schilke 5a4a, 6a4a area. And yet I observed that by penetrating the cup almost straight down to the bowl while still puckering both lips 360° around the tongue a truly powerful tone in all registers was the result. It took a few weeks to catch on in practice and a little longer on the road to rely upon it. This because it was a new motion to my chops at the time. At first I was kinda scared to go all out and play loud bell tones this way. However in time it did as my instructor said it would do.
Opened up my lower and middle registers on a shallow mouthpiece. It also helps to have a really open back bore and throat on the shallow mouthpiece.
Provided more security in upper register attacks. Particularly those high ones where you gotta come in cold. Like popping the second ledger line C# or D# a whole step just above. Tricky notes lol.
Actually the most commonly cracked note is the first ledger line A Flat. Or top space G#. It's cracked so often for two reasons I think.
One because it's not all that high of a note. So more trumpet players are required to blow it. That and by the nature of its position in register arrangers are inclined to use it more often. And not just on the first trumpet chart either. It'll show up in plenty of the 2nd & 3rd cornet parts in concert/marching band. There and all five chairs in jazz ensemble too, It's not just for the ringers lol. Everybody's gotta have one.
And the other reason is that the A Flat with it's third and second valves depressed puts a whole chunk of tubing in the way of the airstream. Rising above this note you'll never really need so much tubing to blow against again. Every single note from above its neighbor the A Natural can be played 1st, 2nd, or Open from that point on. Well with the occasional exception if those really high notes between High G and Double C. For some reason a lot of those guys who've got enough register to play the high A or so find that it slots poorly.
I've seen a video of Bill Chase using all three valves to hit the High A and the B flat. Notes just south of double C that is. Sorry to digress. I just do thst sometimes. But the answer to accuracy problems besides using good breath support seems to be reducing the arm pressure. And getting in the habit of not using so much darn arm pressure. I'll still occasionally jam a bit but only for high notes near the end of a performance. Particularly if the job requires a really big sound. And even then I'll still kinda watch it.
As it isn't always enough to make it through one night of strenuous lead playing. Ya gotta keep ample in reserve for all subsequent gigs. Blowing your brains out on Thursday night is foolish if you're too swollen and stiff in chops by Sarurday night. And this us why learning to achieve as much register as possible without jamming is such a valuable trick of the trade
Anyway thanks to both William and Solo Soprano for bringing the subject up. I like it.
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brassmusician
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Joined: 25 Feb 2016
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| I discovered recently that I can improve the results I get on my lead mouthpiece by practicing a fair bit with a mute in. It seems to both focus and open my aperture providing a better sound and a better set for the upper register. Could be worth experimenting with. |
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razeontherock
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Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| UpNorth wrote: | Thank you, for the quick informative replies.
I looked closely what really happens with my lips, it seems to be that there actually is some overlapping of the lips. My top lip goes over the bottom lip when ascending.
Any hints how to get rid of that? Has anybody else such problem?
I've also noticed that my lower jaw is receded when ascending (maybe the main reason for overlapping in my case). If i try to push the lower jaw to more forward position, it seems to be unnatural position for me... |
Generally speaking, you WANT the top lip overlapping the lower as you ascend, because the lower naturally curls back in and over the lower teeth very slightly. Even less, the lower jaw can move forward for the extreme of your upper register.
So it sounds as if these aspects, you're doing everything right. What you need to do to develop more range is to be able to play the notes you already have, with less motion, less tension, and less effort. One of the best ways to develop this is to play more, but with less volume. |
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Winghorn
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2159
Location: Olympia, Washington
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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When the lower lip rolls under the upper, it thins out the tone in my experience. Doing lip-bends is a good way to train your lower lip to behave.
Steve |
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