Curry Undercut (BC cup vs others)

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

Hi all,

I have a Curry 7BC I've been tooting a bit. I like it quite a lot. I've been playing some surprisingly strong Double Cs and Ebs on my C trumpet with it... So I think the undercut and diameter work well. I can get some very good volume out of it too, eg. the top end of the Mahler 5 excerpts players very easily on it.

I find the low register articulation at softer dynamics is quick but a little bit fluffy though. So, for example, those opening C#s of the Mahler 5 excerpt don't 'pop' at that dynamic quite the way I'd like.
Also, multiple tonguing above the staff feels a little like it lacks support. So I think it's bit too open in the throat for me, and that maybe a little more bowl shaped would improve the clarity of the articulation.

I was wondering therefore, if any one knows if Curry's other 7 size cups (BC & C) are the same rim and diameter with the same drop at the top of the cup? Or if the BC cup is unique like that?

If they're different, can anyone tell me if there are other brands that have the same undercut but which I can get in a stock 26 or 27 throat?

Thank you

TKSop · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:35 am Post subject:

My experience with Curry 3's was that BC and C shared alpha but the B was significantly lower alpha.

IIRC (I sold my curry's some time ago so can't check) the curry BC cup was similar to stork's B cup in shape, but the stork noticeably more efficient, you may find their 5B is the sort of thing you're looking for... Or maybe the B+ or C+...

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

klaus_o · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:35 am Post subject:

Just had a look at my Curry 7C, 7B and 7BC. the initial slope on all 3 is similar. The BC has a longer transition section into the B style cup in order the match the Rim to the cup.

The 7C and 7B are virtually identical at the rim and top of the cup. The 7B is same shape cup but a bit deeper. I love the sound of the BC on my C trumpet, but like you find the bore (throat) a bit too open for clean articulation at softer volumes. I use the 7B 80% of the time on my C trumpet. (other 20% I use BC) The B is a bit too dark on the C trumpet IMO but acceptable for the church playing I do..

My 7C has a 26 throat and that opens the sound. Not as good on the C but great on Bb.

I played the Stork 5C and 5B for a number of years. Although the cup shape on the B is somewhat similar, the rim will feel quite a bit different.
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Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

Ahhh so it's probably just more exaggerated because this is a Bach 7C cup/rim so low alpha angle from the C cup section. I think I get it.

klaus_o · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:24 am Post subject:

The rim is a 7C, but the cup is a Bach B style cup. This cup is different than the Curry 7B. The B cup is essentially the C-cup but just a bit deeper. The cup on the BC has more of a v shape which, coupled with the larger backbore and throat gives a different sound characteristic. That longer transition part you are referring to may just be an result of trying to blend a scaled B cup from another size and matching it to a smaller rim. (i.e. taking a 1.5B cup and scaling it down. Not 100% sure on that)

All the variants I have on the Curry & series feel the same on the chops for the most part. The deeper cups give the same range...but a bit more work. The shallower ones will have a slightly higher "alpha" to keep the chops out of the cup.

Ultimately the best way is to try the mouthpiece. You would be surprised at what works on the C for you. Consider a Marciniewicz Claude Gordon Personal. Roughly same size diameter, bigger, throat and Schmitt style backbore. It has an unusual rim feel at first but it may work for you. I find the articulations surprisingly good.
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John Mohan · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:20 am Post subject:

Note that Mark's BC cups match the various sized C rims (1C, 1.5C, 3C, 5C, 7C, etc.) specifically to the cup shape and depth of the Bach 1B cup. Just as with the rims, the different Bach B cups have different shapes and depths (for instance, the Bach 3B cup is actually deeper than the Bach 1B cup). But with Mark's BC cup, you're getting the (famous) 1B cup shape and depth no matter which cup size you order it with. As the OP noted, one can easily see the transition point between the C type rim and the 1B type cup. This is even more apparent in cases such as the 7BC where the match is between the 7C rim with its rather deep undercut (low alpha angle) and the 1B cup with its significantly higher alpha angle.

The rim size, shape and alpha angle on a Curry 7C should be the same as that of the Curry 7BC (or any of the other Curry 7-sized mouthpieces). Mark uses the rim size and shape from a good Mt Vernon Bach 7C as his 7-sized rim across the entire line of mouthpieces in that size (just as he does with his other rim sizes - they're all based on good examples of Bach Mt Vernon era mouthpieces in their respective sizes).

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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PieterS · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:07 pm Post subject:

Wolfgang Winkler · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:41 pm Post subject:

Mark was explaining the rim cup transition of his BC mouthpieces in an older post...

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123031

John Mohan · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:29 pm Post subject:

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

To throw a spanner in the works, I found a curry 90TF in my collection that I haven't touched for quite a long time.

I plugged it into my C trumpet and all I can say is... wow. At first it was a bit odd, but something about this piece is great. It is very responsive at soft dynamics and can put out a huge sound (Huge and focused! Not flugely at all!) in the lower and mid registers when pushed, and it just feels very easy to play.
At first I wasn't sure about the rim, but after a few days, I'm finding the 600 rim series to be really comfortable.

The diameter doesn't seem to bother me much either. I can still arpeggio up to my Double Ebs, however the sound above G on the staff looses its focus and intensity and begins to sound more flugely unless really playing quite loudly.

The curry site describes it as having a 'veiled quality' to the sound, and I know what it means. When playing softer, the sound seems to hug itself, but as you add some volume it becomes full and fat both behind and in front. I'm always worried that the sound out front might be different than that behind the bell, so I got my Zoom out and did some tests with a few piece. The TF really sounded great out front on my C trumpet, except the change as I get above the staff. It really beat the other piece pieces in sound quality and control in the mid and low registers.

So...
I've gone and placed an order with Dillons for the 90TC. Alas it'll be several weeks before I get it as it's not in stock and it has an ocean to cross to get to me, but I'm hoping it'll feel quite like the TF cup but with more focus and presence above the staff and hopefully will light up a bit more when pushed.

Also, I'm not sure whether it is the rim shape or what but I've been finding this piece seems to play very nicely with a practice mute. Obviously it still feels like I'm using a practice mute, but normally playing open after using a mute things feel a bit out of whack and the sound is off, but I've been finding I can go back and forward with this piece and it's no problem at all. As I have to do a lot of muted practice at the moment it's a godsend and I'll keep using it until I get the TC!

KJaeger

Trumpetingbynurture · Heavyweight Member Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Posts: 898

Kjaeger - Thanks for the info about the diameter. Good to know.

I had a curry 1.5BC but alas I sold it because it didn't work for me on my Bb trumpet and I wasn't playing on C as much then.

I do wish Mark would make the 600 series with the BC cup because I'm really liking this 600 series rim on my 90TF. But I saw that he was considering doing that many years ago and hasn't get gotten around to it, so I expect it's not going to happen except as a custom job.