Reasons for choosing a particular cornet

Louise Finch

Hi

Reading GordonH's mouthpiece thread in which he mentions possibly being on the look out for a new cornet, gave me some ideas for a thread, and what will hopefully be an interesting discussion.

I been playing my current cornet for getting on for three years, and I like it more than ever, and I believe that this is because I finally went for what I liked.

For many years I played a Bach 184ML cornet in a band whose whole cornet section play Bach 184MLs. I still think that it is a great cornet, but its type of sound and articulations didn't blend so well in the section of Sovereigns in my new band, and I started looking for something new.

I'd owned a few more brass orientated cornets in the past, namely a Yamaha Maestro, 928 Sovereign, 927 Sovereign and Boosey and Hawkes Imperial, but didn't keep any of them except the Imperial, preferring my Bach 184ML. I always wished that I had kept my Maestro as I really liked it, but I made the mistake of trading it in for a 928 Sovereign, which I ultimately hated.

I went to Phil Parkers and tried the 8335 Xeno and 8335G Xeno, two Besson Prestiges and a Smith Watkins K2. They didn't currently have one of the new french made 928 Sovereigns in stock, having sold two in the day between me arranging to come down and actually driving down.

I initally really liked both Xenos, but worried that their sound was a little on the thin sound compared to both Prestiges. One Prestige played quite a bit tighter than the other, so I discarded that one. I however really didn't like the blow of the Prestige. I thought that the Smith Watkins K2 was the best compromise between the blow of the Xeno and sound of the Prestige, so I went for the K2. Unfortunately it developed a valve problem warranting its return, and not ultimately liking the feel of the Kanstul valves (just my personal preference I'm sure), I changed it for a new 928 Sovereign. I was expecting my youngest at the time, was very tired owing to a bad train journey with lots of delays on the underground, and with hindsight it wasn't the best day to try cornets.

Anyway, it turned out that I hated this 928 Sovereign just as much as my last one, and I decided to try a secondhand 8335 Xeno on approval.

The ones I had tried at Phil Parkers were silver-plated whereas this one was lacquered. Not directly comparing the two I don't know, but I felt that the lacquered model had a richer fuller sound than my memory of the silver-plated ones. Maybe it was just a different room.

Anyway, I really liked the Xeno again so decided to go for it this time. My initial thoughts were that its articulations weren't quite a clean as those of my Bach 184ML, and that my Sovereign had a slightly richer sound. I however loved how it played and its flexibility.

I really worked on my tone and articulations until I was happy with both.

My conclusion is that you have to ultimately choose an instrument which you like playing. I liked my Xeno enough to put in the effort to improve the aspects of my playing which I felt were the weakest aspect of the cornet itself or at least the weakest aspects of my playing on this particular cornet, whilst enjoying all the things which I initially liked on this cornet, and nearly three years down the line, I am more convinced than ever that I made the right choice to go for an instrument which I like playing.

Probably there are many better cornets out there, but this one has the advantage of many many hours of practice time and getting to really know it, which at least for me, holds far more value than what I could gain from switching to a better cornet.

I suppose you could argue what if I spent all this practice time on a better cornet. True, but limitations in my technique no doubt hold me back further than any limitations in my current cornet.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing the views of others.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

VetPsychWars

Andy Del · Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:26 pm Post subject:

Yes.

Anyone trying to sell the line that everyone needs to play then same instrument or mouthpiece is essentially full of it.

In a recent concert of trumpet ensemble music we had Bb and Cs playing together, piston and rotary flugels, different brands, mouthpieces models to the point nothing was 'matched' yet it all blended.

Because we wanted to, and tried, all while playing our preferred instruments. In some cases, they were borrowed, with almost zero time on the horn!

So, play what you like!

Cheers

Andy
_________________
so many horns, so few good notes...

roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065

In my search I've tried a variety of cornets. I liked the Xeno a lot. But for the overall tone character, I prefer the 928 (lacquer) which is my current horn. And I could easily be persuaded to switch back to the Xeno because it's a very close match. Right now I am having fun with the Besson, but I do wish that they would copy the yamaha trigger design, which feels a lot better than the heavy sprung 928 triggers. Is it just the spring? I don't know. I would also agree that there is a tradeoff between articulation (+1 for the Xeno) and tonal quality (+1 for the 928) on these two super popular cornets.

Louise Finch

Louise Finch · Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:48 am Post subject:

Louise Finch · Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:50 am Post subject:

p76 · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject:

Hi Louise,

Reasons for choosing a particular axe are many and varied, but often the big killer is cost.

New cornets aren't cheap, in OZ anyway, so many of us are restricted to what is available second-hand.

So, having said that, I bought my Besson 723 because it was all the cornet I could afford at the time, and happened upon my Olds later on. There is no doubt the Olds is a better instrument for me thant the Besson, free-er blowing and with a much thicker sound. However, the Besson can be more delicate, and there are times when I like to play it in preference to the Olds.

I would love to get the chance to play a S-W or Eclipse - I have played newer Besson and Yamahas and enjoyed them, but not enough to drop over $3K on....

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

Grits Burgh · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject:

Lou,

So, you have owned a Yamaha Maestro, 928 Sovereign, 927 Sovereign, Boosey and Hawkes Imperial, Bach 184ML, and now a Yamaha 8335 Xeno.

Wow. That's some great hardware. I'm jealous. I would be ecstatic to have any of those horns.

The other day I went to Rich Ita's brass shop and I was thrilled to get to play a Blessing XL.

It's good to be Lou.

If I want advice on a cornet I am considering purchasing, I will definintely ask your opinion.

Regards,
Grits
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy.

Louise Finch · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject:

starkadder · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 May 2008 Posts: 542

HornnOOb · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:54 pm Post subject:

Don't overlook the old Olds cornets. I picked up a "Special" for $90.00 some years back on craigslist. Once she's warmed-up, she really sings nicely. It's a funky old horn, but a bargain at twice the price.
_________________
I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.

Severinsen Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special Cornet

Denis Wick 1C Heavytop
Getzen Flugel 3C

Louise Finch · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject:

Louise Finch · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:30 pm Post subject:

GordonH · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject:

Looks like I am heading back into championship section on solo cornet. To get the dynamic range required I might need to change cornet. Scottish bands play far too loud. If I was in Yorkshire I probably wouldn't need to think about switching!
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

Louise Finch · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject:

p76 · Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:34 pm Post subject:

GordonH · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:57 am Post subject:

Louise Finch · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:58 am Post subject:

Hi GordonH

In my limited experience with the Prestige, I would say that it seems to work best (at least for me) with more open mouthpieces rather than necessarily larger mouthpieces overall.

I have more experience with the 928 Sovereign than the Prestige, and my perception is always that I cannot get sufficient air into the Sovereign with a mouthpiece with a too small throat/too tight backbore. This isn't probably very scientific and my old band master used to say that you vibrate the air in the instrument rather than put air in, but whatever the science, I always feel that rather than tight in the way that a lot of resistance feels, the Sovereign feels dead and unresponsive to me until I switch to a more open mouthpiece, then it really seems to open up in sound and response. My limited experience with the Prestige is that it is much on the same lines, but probably even more so.

You probably have plenty of ideas of cornets to try, but my suggestions in no particular order would be the Yamaha Neo, Besson Prestige and Sovereign, Smith Watkins K2, Geneva (although I have heard negative things about their build quality) and Willson. One of my band colleagues bought a Willson to replace his 928 Sovereign which had had an accident and didn't play as well after repairs, after trying everything he could get his hands on. I personally haven't played it, but it sounds pretty much like his previous Sovereign in his hands. He liked either the Xeno or Neo (he cannot remember which he tried) least of all, and he eventually narrowed his choice down to the Willson and Besson Prestige, which he said was a close second. It goes to show that we are all different, as I would pick the Xeno (I'm yet to try the Neo) over the Prestige any day.

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

TKSop · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:10 am Post subject:

I'd second what Lou's said...

The Neo, Prestige, Sovereign and Smith-Watkins K2 should all be up there, I'd add the Eclipse (which is, for me, comfortably the best I've played) and the Getzen 3850 to the list.

I've seen a couple of Geneva's that were shockingly poor quality (and unsurprisingly played poorly, too) - when there are so many great instruments available for the same money, I'd avoid them like the plague.

I didn't dislike my Maestro, but the K2 is far more capable in a modern band context (again, for me), a bit more flexible and a capable of a much bigger noise - if I played Bb all the time I'd be saving for the Eclipse and selling the K2, but that's pretty much the only thing I'd swap it for.

As always, it comes down to what you can try and what you like best.