Schilke Advice

[atrumpeter]

I own the Schilke Handcraft 2 horn, which I've played the last 2 years or so. I love the quality and craftsmanship of the horn. I love the open feel of the large step bore. I like the dark sound the HC2's copper bell has too. The 2 issues I have are pitchiness in ensembles and inability to play above the staff without switching to smaller mouthpieces, especially as I tire toward the end of the gig.

Trying to see if maybe another horn in the Schilke line would be more suited for the type of playing I do. The Schilke Loyalist website doesn't have info on the HC2 last I checked and how it compares to the other horns in the line.

Does anyone have any input as to what Schilke horn might be a better fit? I should also add that I mainly play church music and musicals with the occasional jazz improv gig. The X or B series, HD, S maybe?

Any input from Schilke afficianados is appreciated! I know, I need to practice more too!!
_________________
Adams A1 Tpt.
Olds Ambassador Tpt and Cornet
Warburton, Curry and Stork Mpcs.

Mostly musicals and church gigs with the occasional jazz jam

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello Alex,
Schilke trumpets are wonderful instruments. It sounds as though you are at a crossroads with the sound you like versus long term play-ability. Schilkes play big, and a large bore horn may be a little much to fill for most venues you play. I have had a B1L, then a B2L and now have an S42. And I have had large bores of other makes. The B2 probably would have been a better fit for me and it sounds like a B5 is what you are looking for. The copper bell will give your sound and the ML bore would be comfort to play for endurance and possibly a better pitch center. Or a B3 if you just want to stay with a large bore. I like how my S42 plays when I am fresh, but I have not found the right mouthpiece combination to make it feel how I like to play.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[shofarguy]

Alex,

What do you mean by "pitchy"? I had an X-4 for a short time. It was also a .468" bore, but with the #1 bell like the B1. It had terrific intonation in all registers, even requiring less extension on the 3rd valve slide for low D, C# and F#. The upper A needed little or no 1st valve slide extension, either. Are you the one that is pitchy, or are you playing with players who are not in tune?

That being said, a large bore horn like the HC2 needs the support of a good full air column. I don't mean a lot of air forcing through the horn, I mean good breath support from the whole torso. I guess that you are also using a deep cup mouthpiece. That requires better technique and support above the staff to get the level of confidence you get from a smaller cup, but the sound will be more full and rich. It may also be louder, since more support is behind your sound.

I have not found the HC2 (or X-4) to play all that big, but if you do, a smaller bore horn may be what you need. The B5 is said to be a great trumpet. The B1 has the large bell with a .460 bore. To me the #1 bell is less brilliant than even the HC bell. The tail section of the #1 is bigger and produces a fatter fundamental than the HC, even though the flare of the HC is bigger.

Personally, I think the copper fools the eyes into believing that the sound is darker, but to my ears the difference between it and a brass bell is not very noticeable and isn't about dark and bright, but character within the same range of frequencies.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[adagiotrumpet]

I currently own several Schilkes. I have played the Handcraft series and to me, they play uniquely different from the other Schilkes. It has been suggested that you try a B2 or B5. The B2 is a ML horn with a M yellow brass bell. The B5 is a ML horn with a ML copper bell. Of the two, the B5 will sound closer to what you are playing but the blow will be noticeably less open and the sound will be more focused. The sound of the B2 is even brighter and more focused than a B5.

The B3, which is my favorite, blows more freely than a B2 or a B5, but has a pretty bight and focused sound, especially when compared to the Handcraft series. I have often wondered what a B5 bell would sound and play like on a B3 body. However, Schilke does not produce that combination as part of their regular lineup. Special ordering such a combination would just be too costly an experiment.

[kristiner]

I play a B5. Not everyone realizes how adaptable this horn is - and a whole lot has to do with mouthpiece selection. No other horn I've ever played is so sensitive to the slightest changes in depth, throat, and backbore, including the other B and HC series Schilkes. I can make this instrument fit into just about any context with the right playing approach and the right mouthpiece... as dark as a B1 or HC2 and as bright as a B6.

Also, one of the real advantages of the ML copper bell - other than the perceived "warmer" tone - is the quickness of response. Someone around here described it as responding like a light switch, and that's really true. Great horn for improvised music, there is almost no latency in getting your sound out the bell.
_________________
Kris Tiner
Professor of Music, Director of Jazz Studies
Bakersfield College
http://kristiner.com

[Bill Ortiz]

It might be possible that adjusting the gap will help with the issues you are experiencing.
_________________
'56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
14B Schilke mouthpiece
Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA

[KJaeger]

Alex:

You already have some good advice here. My own recent experience (I picked out my B7 a few weeks ago at the Schilke factory, after playing all of the different models in their showroom) is that I responded to a tighter-bore Schilke than what the "paper" specs might have suggested. I went in expecting to like the B1 (an ML step-bore with a large bell throat) since I had always played ML horns, but found the B7 (identical bell and design but M step-bore) to be "the one" for me. This was after having similar frustrations with my Kanstul 1600 as you described with your HC2 (needing a smaller mpc cup/throat/backbore to get the horn to "work", etc).

It could very well be that you will be a better match much for one of the other Schilke models. In my experience, even M-bore Schilkes do not play "stuffy", and like me you may find that something else (a B1, B5, B7 or an X3) allows you to better accomplish your goals.

One thing to note - when I tried the HC2, I thought it was actually easier to play than the "technically" tighter B1. I agree with Brian, I didn't think the HC2 played all that "big" - it was actually tied for my 2nd favorite of all the Schilkes I tried, but I chose the B7 because I thought the sound quality was more versatile for what I needed. Also, the S-models (especially the HD ones) IMHO will play quite a bit different (e.g. tighter slotting, more "Bach-like") than the Handcraft due to the weight, bracing, dimensions and main slide shape. The B-models will probably be closer in concept to the Handcrafts.

It may be tough as you are in North Carolina, but if there is ANY way for you to visit the Schilke factory/showroom in Chicago and try all the different models, that is the best way to compare. Alternatively, find a Schilke dealer that happens to keep a variety of Schilke's in stock - if you call Schilke they could help you with that.
_________________
- Kevin

Schilke B7
1935 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore
Bach 37 (rebuilt by Charlie Melk) w/ MTV-525 leadpipe
Kanstul 1510-A C trumpet
Kanstul 1525 flugelhorn

[matthes93401]

I've owned a similar Schilke X4b for several years. To add a little more resistance I had M&K make me a smaller bore slide. Another thought is adding an adjustable tuning slide brace. The tighter 5 backbore is a help also, as I see you use the Warburton mouthpieces. Hope this helps.

[yourbrass]

I played an HC2 at at the ITG conference last summer. It was too big, way too big. I got a cornet-like sound out of it, and knew I would be in trouble if I was in a performance situation with it. My X4B is perfectly playable, and outstanding.

My 2p,

-Lionel
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[atrumpeter]

Thanks you everyone for the input. It really is appreciated!! Probably need to find a way to try out some of the other horns if possible!
_________________
Adams A1 Tpt.
Olds Ambassador Tpt and Cornet
Warburton, Curry and Stork Mpcs.

Mostly musicals and church gigs with the occasional jazz jam

[Arjuna]

B6L.

[Jerry]

I currently own:
i32
C3Lb
P5-4

I've owned:
S-32
B7

I've had on extended trial and should have bought: S22-C.

I've tried just about every Bb and C that Schilke brings to shows.

With regard to the HC-2, I, too, struggled with it above the staff but surprisingly, didn't find it to feel like an open, free-blowing horn at all.

I took a B3 home over night once and was toast after an hour of playing it. I concluded their large bore Bb horns were not for me.

Their HD series horns don't speak to me as well as their B series horns. But you could certainly be different.

I had a chance to try a used B2L (tuning bell) that I liked a lot. However, it was in rough shape, so I passed.

I would recommend that you play as many medium and ML bore Schilkes you can get your lips on.

It's a shame that Schilke doesn't bring any Tuning Bell or Beryllium Bell horns to shows for people to try. I think they would sell a lot more if players had an opportunity to test them.

Good luck!

[trickg]

It has been my experience that Schilkes are much more in tune with themselves - call it a better scale - than Bachs, or horns that are built with more or less that same design. They are a good bit different. As a result, while if you are a solo horn in a rock band or something like that, the improved scale and intonation of Schilke really makes things easier.

With that said, when I started playing in a concert band again, I noticed that because of the differences in scale, playing in a section of Bachs and Xenos, there were some pitch differences, mainly because of the differences in inherent intonation between instruments. As an example, the D above tuning C for a Bach tends to be a bit low. It wasn't low at all on my Schilke, so there was a bit of a clash at times on Ds. Another example is low E. That note was high on my Schilke, so that was another note where things could be a bit "pitchy" when playing in a section of Bachs.

None of this was insurmountable, but that's what I believe caused it.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[atrumpeter]

[shofarguy]

[atrumpeter]

[kristiner]

Another +1 on everything trickg said about Schilke tuning. My B5 blends effortlessly with non-trumpet instruments, especially strings, guitar, piano etc., and it's far less hassle with intonation for the music I do (mostly jazz and chamber music) than the Bach I used to play. But trumpet section work can be weird at times - more so with Bach players than Yamaha. I tend to use a lot of 3rd valve for those 1-2 combinations that sit lower on a Bach.

I'm curious about this upper register thing on the HC2. I played one for awhile at ITG this year. It seemed like there were almost two separate registers - everything from the top of the staff down was warm, lush, cornet-like. But above the staff the sound got really intense and focused. The Committee I used to own kind of did the same thing, except without so much Schilke "sparkle". The HC2 above the staff felt to me like a really big B6, which was surprising. I know a lot of people are into this horn, so I figured it just wasn't a good fit for me. What does it take to get a real even response out of it?
_________________
Kris Tiner
Professor of Music, Director of Jazz Studies
Bakersfield College
http://kristiner.com

[gstump]

My college teacher was the exclusive dealer for Schilke in Ohio back in the day. Although I could have improved my grade I refused to buy a horn from him.

So I stayed with my NY Bach, Serial #65! Really a Besson. Not at all like the later Bachs.

Once I got a B5 I never looked back. If you are doing church work along with commercial work, the B series is a great choice.

Yes. Schilkes are not only in tune with themselves, whatever that means but do not have the inherent trumpet intonation issues on 4th line D top space E. I do not know how they do it.

If you can not go the Chicago, try to find someone nearby with a B series horn. The good new is Schilkes are as consistent as is physically possible so buying a used horn is no gamble.

Best of luck,

Gordon Stump
_________________
Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student

[RL]

Played the X3 for years, beautifull sounding trumpet....loved it
Some how it didn't mix with other trumpets (at that time mostly Bachs)
I thought at that time that it was a lack of projection because it sounded much broader than other brands.....(also on recordings it was noticable)

In a more symphonic setting with less trumpetplayers it played absolutely great.