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Yamaha Xeno vs Schilke S-HD Series


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Dayton
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thanks for the input everyone! For all the Bachaholics out there, what are your thoughts on the 37, 65, and 72 bells for symphonic and general classical repertoire?


I have a Bach 190S37 ("50th Anniversary" model). The 37 bell works wonderfully for symphonic and general classical playing.

My Getzen 3051 has a 72-style heavy gold brass bell. I find that the 72-style bell also works really well for symphonic and general classical playing.

Good luck!
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a.kemp wrote:
180s37 ML for classical playing.
Not the only Bach that'll work. But, hard to beat. (That's why every other company copies it.)

The Artisan Bb and 190S37 are also great. All are roughly the same with minor differences.


+1

All the best

Lou
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Fishbones_
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would you consider the standard leadpipe and the reversed leadpipe (180S37 vs. LR180S37) for the purposes discussed thus far? Does the lightweight body of the LR impact the sound enough to outweigh the supposedly quicker response, and how do the LR compare in general to the standard version?
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a.kemp
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PERSONALLY, I think the Bach 18037LR is a terrible design.
The way they braced the reversed pipe, it feels vibrant in your hands, but lacks carrying power. The intonation is crappy too. I've yet to play one without a sky high top staff f and g. At least Yamaha gave some thought into their bracing of a reverse pipe.
Worst Bach I've played.
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Fishbones_
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from the intonation issues, how did the overall sound and response of the LR compare to the standard? We all know how inconsistent Bach can be and you may have just received one of their worse ones.
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a.kemp
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played 6-8 LR models.
They all have the same issues due to their build.
The bell brace is way too up the bell. The bell vibrates way beyond necessity.
Loss of tone, loss of carrying power, wonky intonation, uneven slotting.

I've also talked about it with some of the best known techs and a few Bach artists. They all say the same thing.

It is not a good classical horn. Personally, I think it's a pretty bad classical horn. I do know a few jazz players who like them, though.
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played a Bach "London" model - LR design, standard weight body, 43 bell on what I played. Not sure I can comment on the bracing, but it played really well. Was rather fond of it.
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like everything else, trumpets seem to go through fads.

In the 90s and 2000s everybody was making heavier trumpets, with extra sheet brass, caps heavy mouthpieces etc.

Same with reverse pipes, rounded tuning slides, rounded everything. Raw brass horns were the craze for a while.

Then everything goes full circle, back to traditional designs that seem to work best.

I think trumpets with standard pipes and shapes play with a compact sound, easiest intonation and response. Standard to lightweight also seems to sound the way trumpets are meant to sound to my ears.
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Paul Tomashefsky
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have played Yamaha Xeno models since 2001 and have purchased one of their New Xeno II models last year YTR-8335GS form the Yamaha Atelier office in NYC. The slotting and over-all sound on this horn is just great! I have been a Yamaha Trpt artist since 1988, when I first purchased a Yamaha YTR-6345 Rose brass bell, I believed Bobby Shew played on this model before coming out with his own model. I had purchased a Schilke 42 HD model several years back and sent the horn back (wwbw.com) For whatever reason, the horn did not feel right for me. Could have been mouthpiece gap set-up, etc... Not exactly sure. I did try the Faddis Model and I believe a B6 Schilke model at Osmun music in Maynard MA a coupe years back and liked them a lot more than the 42 HD model. They were both brighter freer blowing horns. I had played a Bach 37 R for several years but was always trying to tweak it to make it match the sound I wanted in my head. Sold that horn in 1996 and have not looked back since. Yamaha horns are reliable, well balanced instruments. There are many different horn brands to choose from. In the end, it's always how the horn responds to your personal physical make up. Jeff Stout (Berklee Trumpet Professor) used to play on a Bach 72 lightweight model for many years, Purchased a Conn Constellation, and had been playing this for quite a while. When I saw him last night, he was back on the Bach 72 lightweight with a Bach 6C mouthpiece. Sounded awesome. When asked he said the switch was a fluke. He had forgotten his mouthpiece in his Berklee office in Boston, and not wanting to drive all the way into town to retrieve it, he pulled a 6C out of a draw at home, it just didn't match up to the Constellation, so he's been using his Bach again with the 6C piece, and loves it. So . . . in the end it's what makes you and your EARS Happy. Good luck
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Fishbones_
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies. Has anyone here played any of the Shires models?
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thanks for all the replies. Has anyone here played any of the Shires models?


I own a Shires CVP model, and owned an AF model. Both really nice horns. Shires is well worth considering.
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Fishbones_
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the Xenos, have you guys noticed any major differences between the yellow and gold brass bells?
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishbones_ wrote:
For the Xenos, have you guys noticed any major differences between the yellow and gold brass bells?

I have noticed a difference both in playing them and hearing others play them. They both sound good, but the gold brass bell sounds darker to me. I prefer the sound of the yellow brass bell. It still has a strong, substantial core but with a bit more shine on top that I like. I think it comes down to personal choice and what you need for your playing situations.
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a.kemp wrote:
PERSONALLY, I think the Bach 18037LR is a terrible design.
The way they braced the reversed pipe, it feels vibrant in your hands, but lacks carrying power. The intonation is crappy too. I've yet to play one without a sky high top staff f and g. At least Yamaha gave some thought into their bracing of a reverse pipe.
Worst Bach I've played.


From my experience the Bach 25LR mouthpipe configuration doesn't match up well with their 37 bell, however it works very well with their 43 and 72 bells.

As for the Schilke HD series, they've proven to be very nice trumpets for our customers. These have great appeal for those accustomed to playing Bach trumpets. The addition of the S33HD with #3 bell shape provides yet another option to players looking for something a bit different from the original S32HD model.

I hope this is helpful.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Yamaha vs Schilke Reply with quote

Christian K. Peters wrote:
Hello all,
Both horns are built with an integrity and quality in mind. They play differently, as they both have a unique response and sound. I think it would take some time in a big room to really discover the nuances.

+1
I think it's very important to test horns in a large room, having a trumpet player listen to you at the back of the room.

A recent teacher of mine and I would shock each other testing mouthpieces and horns while sitting next to each other and then walking to the far end of the rehearsal room we would use for lessons. Frequently, but not always, we would have completely different opinions of the hardware we were testing while sitting next to each other compared to listening to each other way across the room. Just amazingly different at times.

I would think that any of the horns you mentioned could work fabulously for the settings you describe. You just have to test for yourself.

Good luck!
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