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carsonsehr New Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Posts: 9
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:47 pm Post subject: Breaks During Practice Sessions |
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I'm sure this is in another thread, but what is your ratio for practice:breaks in a typical practice session? I'm a high school junior with pretty low endurance, but a decent range, and I'm trying to increase my endurance the smart way: efficient practicing. Do you have any other tips for endurance building?
Also, this is going to sound like a silly question, but what do you do during your practice session breaks (the short breaks in between exercises)? |
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Pete Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 1739 Location: Western Massachusetts
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Rest as much as you play. If an excercise lasts 10 seconds, rest 10 seconds. And so on. Try to keep you chops as fresh as you can. We have all fallen into the trap of playing too much and not resting enough.
Pete |
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brassmusician Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2016 Posts: 273
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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For endurance building I would recommend Caruso's Six Note exercise. You can find details and links to it on the forum here. I have been playing for 20 years or so and discovered Caruso a month ago. I was surprised that after only two weeks doing this every day (it only takes a few minutes literally) and right in the middle of a busy season of gigs and rehearsals, I experienced a noticeable increase in my endurance and in the security of my embouchure.
Good luck. |
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 942 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Hi, I found constructive things to do during short breaks. This is how I taught myself to play guitar and work out chord progressions in every key. I also read things like a paragraph at a time or so of the beginning of the Colin book. Play a little, read a little as the rest between exercises. Have you ever read what he has to say about his exercises and the tongue arch? I also read "Trumpet Playing is No Harder Than Deep Breathing", The Art of Brass Playing" (Robert Wheast), "Trumpet Altissimo"(John Lynch), "Hit It Hard and Wish it Well" (Jeff Purtle, getting ready to read it again) and many threads in TH. Like I'm doing now. Well, back to my Earl Irons Exercises.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I often practice multi-line exercises or tunes in short segments. During the break between segments, I'll hum or sing the upcoming segment. I keep the segments short enough so that I feel fresh and my embouchure feels strong and in-place. If I start feeling tired or begin to lose form, I'll stop, even if I'm not to the end of the segment.
I plan a certain amount of time for major sections of practice. When time's up, I stop the section. This is often the hardest part of time management for me. I rest a few minutes between sections of practice, but I avoid getting deeply involved in anything that could make me lose focus on practice. I usually spend a few minutes flipping through material, then on to the next section.
I'll keep going this way for around 45-60 minutes, then my practice is done, even if I still feel fresh. If I'm gassed, that tells me I didn't manage my practice well. (Franquin wrote that one should be able to play a nice sounding scale comfortably at the end of practice, else you practiced too long.) I won't practice again until I feel fresh and completely recovered so I won't slip into a chronic fatigue situation.
Not saying everyone should follow the same approach, but it works for me in playing with the bands I've joined. I think each trumpeter should experiment to find ways to work on skill development and musicality without wearing yourself out. Approaches should vary depending on each player's level of development. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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JoseLindE4 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 791
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Sing, play, repeat makes sure you get some productive rest in. If you can sing everything you have to play, you're odds of playing it well go way up (practice doesn't make perfect, but it sure does improve the odds).
Our minds need breaks too, so sometimes I stare off into space and check out for a minute or so. This is good preparation for an orchestral career. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:26 am Post subject: |
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It may sound stupid but for me it's been the hardest thing. If you practice really intensely in a way that gets you tired quickly, then all you're doing is learning how to tire yourself out! Try to construct a practice routine that doesn't emphasize and keep you at the edge of your technical abilities. Make sure there are lots of low impact exercises throughout your routine. Don't be in a hurry to get a good burn, this isn't weight lifting. And don't play until you're wasted. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Another very good thing to do is to play things on piano when you're resting. Playing back what you're practicing on the piano is a great way to get something in your ear quickly, and can teach you the spatial relationship between the notes you're working on. It can also help your intonation!
If I'm practicing diminished licks, or half diminished, or whatever, I'll noodle around with that on the piano when I'm resting. That way I'm still doing something theoretical that's relevant to the music I'm learning, and I'm training my ear and theory chops to understand it better.
Always practice next to a piano if you can!!
(The ultimate point is that "rest" doesn't mean "stop practicing," it means "do something musically productive that doesn't directly engage your chops.) _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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pepperdean Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 650 Location: Johnson City, Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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You've received a lot of good advice so far. As everyone has said, practicing to exhaustion is very counterproductive.
As a high school student, a lot of your learning is mental rather than physical. For my school age students, I emphasize physical development and coordination, musical literacy, and artistic literacy. During your practice time, you can address parts of all of these between short episodes of playing. You can improve your finger technique by playing (fingers only) Clarke studies or by running scales with your fingers. You can improve on etudes, performance music, or sight reading by singing and fingering or by clapping rhythms. You can improve your interpretive skills by listening to diverse styles of music. There are many things you can do in brief snippets that will enhance your progress on the trumpet.
You can also work in this manner for a period of time, take some time doing something unrelated, and come back to the horn for another session.
You know your goals and what is important at any given time. That can lead you to plenty of productive things to do in small increments while your chops get refreshed.
Best wishes,
Alan |
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solo soprano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Breaks During Practice Sessions |
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carsonsehr wrote: | what is your ratio for practice:breaks in a typical practice session? |
Claude Gordon / Systematic Approach
*if needed stay on each lesson for 2 weeks*
1. Play Part 1, then rest 15 minutes
2. Play Part II, and the Lip Relaxer, then rest one hour.
3. Play Part III, then rest 15 minutes.
4. Play Part IV, then rest one hour.
5. Play Part V, then rest 15 minutes.
6. Play Part VI, and you are finished.
If time does not allow you to practice in this manner, practice Parts I, II, and III one day, and Parts IV, V, and VI the next, and take two (four) weeks to complete each lesson.
Developing Muscle Strength
Muscles are weakened during exercise. It's during the rest periods following the exercise that strength is built. By resting sufficiently, (and then some) after every practice session one gets stronger. Rest as much as you play, and then some. As you get stronger you will not feel as tired. This is when you must FORCE yourself to rest. If you do not observe the rest periods properly allowing the muscle to rebuild, you will at best only be as strong as you were the day before and at worst you will continue to get weaker. The slower and softer you play the more endurance you will gain.
The principle of overcompensation.
Suppose that during a particular exercise (playing a exercise on trumpet) you weaken the embouchure muscles by 10%. The muscles cells then in effect says to itself, "During the rest period I will not only build back the 10% strength I have lost, but will add a little extra strength, just in case this guy (or gal) does this to me again." So by resting sufficiently you can get stronger after every practice session.
Now comes the ambitious player who does not observe the rest periods properly. During exercise he weakens the muscles by 10%, and rest only long enough for the muscles to rebuild by 9%. Is he now strong? No, he is weaker! Theoretically if he does this 100 times in a row, all strength will be gone. By the next day, at best he will be only as strong as he was the day before, and at worst he will continually get weaker.
So heed this advise:
While practicing a particular routine, rest as much as you play. Between routines, rest long enough for the muscles to rebuild themselves, and then some.
Remember too, as you get strong, you will not feel as tired. This is when you must force yourself to rest. _________________ Bill Knevitt, who taught me the seven basic physical elements and the ten principles of physical trumpet playing and how to develop them.
https://qpress.ca/product-category/trumpet/?filter_publisher=la-torre-music |
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Arjuna Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Posts: 240 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Breaks During Practice Sessions |
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Practice Bill Adam leadpipe buzzing 3 minutes.
Practice Caruso's 6 note exercise 1 time at the end of your 1st practice session and 1 time at the end of your last practice session of the day.
Practice the Irons book resting 2 minutes between exercises.
Rest as much as you play.
Do something related to music while resting.
Practice 20-30 minute sessions.
Rest 1 hour between sessions.
Practice slowly.
Practice softly.
Roar softly.
carsonsehr wrote: | I'm sure this is in another thread, but what is your ratio for practice:breaks in a typical practice session? I'm a high school junior with pretty low endurance, but a decent range, and I'm trying to increase my endurance the smart way: efficient practicing. Do you have any other tips for endurance building?
Also, this is going to sound like a silly question, but what do you do during your practice session breaks (the short breaks in between exercises)? |
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GCJax New Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2017 Posts: 5
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Equal rest/play time when practicing.
Don't practice on tired chops, put the horn away while still feeling good.
Alternate types of playing, eg different dynamics, tonguing within practice sessions.
Lip slurs. Lip slurs. Lip slurs.
Soft, controlled pedals.
Beer. (just kidding...) |
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GCJax New Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2017 Posts: 5
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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oh yeah, what to do while resting.
sing and finger the passage you are working on.
bre-e-e-e-eathe.
or as someone else suggested, practice guitar.
enjoy! |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Pete wrote: | Rest as much as you play. If an excercise lasts 10 seconds, rest 10 seconds. And so on. Try to keep you chops as fresh as you can. We have all fallen into the trap of playing too much and not resting enough.
Pete |
This.
In the breaks, I suggest singing the next thing you're going to play so you develop your ears. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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Bflatman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2016 Posts: 720
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:33 am Post subject: |
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I believe that you improve at what you practice.
If you want high notes practice high notes
If you want smooth long tones practice smooth long tones
If you want to run a marathon, dont run a series of dashes run marathons
Breaks are critically important but I dont believe the chops rebuild during breaks, they would have to have been torn to rebuild in my opinion, torn muscles rebuild, tired muscles recover.
I fundamentally believe that whats going on is during practice the chops become tired and then they dont work well, continuing practice after this point will only serve to practice poor musicality rubbish tones and cracked notes.
In other words amateurish playing. We want the very best throughout our practice, only the best is good enough.
If you want rubbish tones and cracked notes then practice when your tired.
The guys in here are totally correct, plenty of rest when the chops become tired. Use one of the excellent formats for practice and rest already mentioned here.
Even if you dont believe your tired you might not have noticed it. Be guided by the sound, if you start to sound poor your probably tired, you must rest.
We can deliver great beauty in our performances, practice great beauty and you will deliver. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2330 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Bflatman wrote: | I believe that you improve at what you practice.
If you want high notes practice high notes
If you want smooth long tones practice smooth long tones
If you want to run a marathon, dont run a series of dashes run marathons
Breaks are critically important but I dont believe the chops rebuild during breaks, they would have to have been torn to rebuild in my opinion, torn muscles rebuild, tired muscles recover.
I fundamentally believe that whats going on is during practice the chops become tired and then they dont work well, continuing practice after this point will only serve to practice poor musicality rubbish tones and cracked notes.
In other words amateurish playing. We want the very best throughout our practice, only the best is good enough.
If you want rubbish tones and cracked notes then practice when your tired.
The guys in here are totally correct, plenty of rest when the chops become tired. Use one of the excellent formats for practice and rest already mentioned here.
Even if you dont believe your tired you might not have noticed it. Be guided by the sound, if you start to sound poor your probably tired, you must rest.
We can deliver great beauty in our performances, practice great beauty and you will deliver. |
+1, to this. yes, yes, and yes.
I will add that I don't believe we really need to "build up" strength/endurance in our chops. I think it's more about learing efficiency, learning the very fine movements/coordination and balance between large and small muscles that allow us to play for longer stretches. You don't see our hero trumpet players with ripped facial muscles, like a body builder.
as written you will improve what you practice - a good teacher will be providing you a variety of exercises, etudes and solos that address many aspects of playing and help you focus on areas of weakness while promoting your strengths.
...fill your moments of rest with alternative learning methods, sing the passeges, finger work, theory, piano/guitar etc.
good luck _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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choose your material wisely, stuff that will do what you want it to do. for example i am going light on tonguing in favor of more in the irons book, which are endurance exercises. work on what you need or want or your weakest points.
play and rest about equally. in addition, take a short break or three where you get up and walk around and clear your thoughts.
everybody is different so you will know what to do by how your chops feel. this re the KISS comment above. |
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epoustoufle Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2015 Posts: 233 Location: France
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'll just add 2c. If you're practicing things that sound beautiful then you're practicing things that are too easy. How can you progress if you don't put something in front of you that sounds like a disaster the first 10 (or 100) times? |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:48 am Post subject: |
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epoustoufle wrote: | I'll just add 2c. If you're practicing things that sound beautiful then you're practicing things that are too easy. How can you progress if you don't put something in front of you that sounds like a disaster the first 10 (or 100) times? |
I'd qualify that. If you're only practicing things that sound beautiful then you're may not be covering all the bases.
I think there's great utility in practicing thing that you play beautifully. I'd argue that much of daily practice should sound performance ready beautiful and always pushing to make it more beautiful. Certainly, a portion of your practice should be at the edge of your ability and I wouldn't expect that to be polished. But too many players spend too much time playing too high, too fast, and too loud, and that informs how they sound when they get into performance situations, and not in a good way. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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