Is the "Bach Mystique" dead?

David Scherer · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: Is the "Bach Mystique" dead?

In the late 1950's, I had the pleasure of studying trumpet with Chicago Symphony Orchestra trumpeter Rudolf Nashan at Sherwood Music School in Chicago. When I walked into the studio for the first time with my Selmer K-Modified, I remember seeing that most beautiful sight laying on the piano -- a silver Bach C Trumpet.

Over the years, I played Strads until I switched to Yamaha in the mid-1990's. ( Although I wish that I had kept the Selmer.) I needed a new horn and got a terrific deal on a Yamaha C and B flat in a double case. Both horns were the new heavy weight models. I have never regretted the decision to switch.

I noticed that for the past two years there has been no advertising in the ITG Journal by the Vincent Bach Co., and that now several of our major orchestras now use Yamaha trumpets -- something that was unthinkable thirty years ago.

My question is: Is the "Bach Mystique" dead?

LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:31 pm Post subject:

Not if you judge by spending time on this site. There are probably just as many fan boys and haters as there always have been.

There are even a few people on here who like Yamahas.

mafields627 · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:16 pm Post subject:

I think that for most students Bach is out of reach now. NONE of my students' families can afford a $2600 horn. I'm lucky if I can get them on a used Yammie from a DCI corps or intermediate Jupiter/King/Getzen.
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dstdenis · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Is the "Bach Mystique" dead?

lgt0412 · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject:

I think they went through a period from the late 90s to the late 2000s where the quality really suffered. I know for me personally, I went from having only owned Strads as pro horns to really not liking them at all. I spent 10+ years never touching one ... or even wanting to. But I will say that the horns they are producing now I would put against any horn made, period. The custom horns, i.e. the Commercial, Mariachi, NY#7 etc I have played have all been amazing (my new Mariachi has replaced my trusty Kanstul 1600. Something I thought no horn would ever do!!). And even the generic 37s and 43s I've played lately have all been night and day better from those horns made during the period I mentioned at the beginning of this post. I luckily get to play tons of horns all the time. So even though this is just based on my experience it is covering a large number of examples. There are a lot of wonderful horns out there, and I'm glad to tell anyone wondering that the Bach brand is once again right at the top of the list!!
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Tony Scodwell · Heavyweight Member Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961

The current Bach trumpets are wonderful instruments and the people in charge have got the company pointed in the right direction. That said, Yamaha may be the best promoters of their instruments the world has ever seen and are seemingly unrelenting in their outreach to players. Are they the best? Play them side by side and decide if they're the best for you. Bach's pricing seems to be somewhat more realistic in comparison with their top line instruments and seem to be more widely available in stores handling the line. Playing both is the test and either way you'll have a top quality instrument.

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David Scherer · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: Is the "Bach Mystique" dead

To all who answered my post on the "Bach Mystique."

Many thanks. Your comments have been most enlightening.

Regards,

David Scherer

RandyTX · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject:

brass crusader · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:27 pm Post subject:

I can tell you that I think the market is suffering all around, as people are going to more and more boutique horns, like Yamaha Customs and Shires, amongst others.

With so many variations and models released in the past 10 years, and with digital marketing serving those smaller companies best, I think that there is simply too much choice out there, and the old standard has fallen by the wayside as not being exciting or specific enough. The market is falling for vintage Bachs as more and more people are buying new, highly customized horns, whereas they used to look, perhaps, for a Mt. Vernon or NY Bach. With every company making an entire line of trumpets these days, from student level to everything else imaginable and genre-specific, the market is flooded with a lot of very fine instruments, and the resale market has greatly suffered.

The advent of the internet and TH and similar sites drove the prices of rare instruments up, as suddenly people were talking about their scarcity and talking them up. What used to just be "an old Bach" was suddenly a "Pre-Mt. Vernon NY L bore with a side-seam gold brass bell", on the forums, and the rarity and history was talked about more than the playing characteristics. This drove, in my opinion, the boom in prices for NY and Mt. Vernon Bachs up until a year or two ago. Now, collectors have found most of what they are looking for, and many have gone to modern, personalized instruments that are of an incredibly high quality. I'm sure there are more quality used instruments out there now than players, and that will only lead to a further devaluation of these older trumpets. If your students want a good Bach, keep looking, and a nice older one will come up soon for a good price, I'm sure.

Brad361 · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:43 pm Post subject:

mafields627 · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject:

I don't think so. Even during the dark days when folks considered the Bach horns at their worst, there remained the general consensus that the good ones, if you can find one, are still some of the best around.
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jaemard · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:28 pm Post subject:

Winghorn · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject:

New is not necessarily better, in spite of what all the advertising hype and the internet would have one believe.

I see an inordinate number of the so-called boutique instruments on the used market- way out of proportion to their original market share. I think a lot amateur and hobby players tend to go for the hyped-up custom horns, while the artists and professionals stay with their Bachs, Yamahas and other traditional instruments.

I often wonder why people seeking advice regarding a horn purchase seem to accept the opinions of posters on this forum whose playing abilities and experience are unknown, rather than looking at what the majority of professionals are playing.

If you think the days of Bach being the standard are over, make a list of all the great players still using them and compare it to any list of players using a particular custom or boutique horn.

Custom horns can be great, but they are not necessarily "better" than mainstream horns. They are just different and give more choices to the player. But the fact that so many players choose Bach instruments is telling IMHO.

Steve

mafields627 · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:26 pm Post subject:

Speaking of the boutique makers (and some big ones, too), there have been a lot of booms and busts here on TH.....

Zeus
Lawler
Eclipse
Adams
Conn V1
Raptor
Carol Brass
Callet
Wild Thing
And a host of others I can't remember!

Something will come along and everybody will go crazy for it and then it will fade away.
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Jerry · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Is the "Bach Mystique" dead?

Brad361 · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject:

TrentAustin · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject:

I can assure you Adams is alive, well, and growing faster than ever. We are not going anywhere but hopefully continually up. Certainly not a "fad" as evidenced by the tremendous show we just had at NAMM and how many new dealers are signing on worldwide.

I think Bach is also making some absolutely fantastic horns these days as are a ton of makers as well.

Best,
Trent
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mafields627 · Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject:

Good point, Brad. I should have chosen my words more carefully. I was specifically talking about the amount of forum traffic the new brands generated when they were first introduced.
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cyber_shake · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 769

I'm glad there are so many options of great axes to play ... pro or amateur, we all have different taste in what 'feels best' to us.

I played an Artisan when they were first introduced ... one made for Alex Yates ... and it was awesome. Recently, I had been thinking about picking one up and also wanted to play the Commercial model. Played them both today at a local dealer ... and it was way earlier in the day than I normally play, but I did not like either at all. Really bummed about that too. Did like a 37 LT and a 43 better, but not enough to purchase.

Gotta say, my Adams A4 LT Shepherd's Crook with 5.5" red brass bell is the best trumpet I have ever played. So responsive and a sound that makes me happy every time I play it.

As much as I want to join the club, I just can't find a Bach for sale that 'fits' me.
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