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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:10 pm Post subject: Quickest you've seen a beginner get a decent sound? |
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What's the fastest you've seen a beginner go from their first honking attempt at playing to having a usable trumpet sound?
Primarily wondering about kids who've never played anything before but go ahead and include those who already played another instrument - specify the circumstances. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:03 am Post subject: |
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One 7th grader who began lessons with me last year as a beginner (in 6th grade) started producing a fairly clear and surprisingly centered sound in about four months. No prodigy for sure, but he is still making very steady progress, he had not played another instrument before starting on trumpet.
Off topic a bit, but I do have an 8th grader at the same school who started lessons with me this year who has a LOT of natural ability, if he continues he could be VERY good. I don't know for certain, but talking to the band directors there it sounds as if he may have an unusually high IQ; he seems to do very well in other areas in school as well. The downside for him is he becomes easily frustrated when something is difficult for him, I do approach lessons somewhat differently with this student, it seems to be working. I have had conversations with his mother about this also, she is aware of his talent and his lack of patience, she is very realistic about it and so far things are going well with his progress.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Day 1. Part of our music program is a year of wind or brass at year 4 level. (Elementary school)These kids have already done 2 years of strings, many learn piano, some sing in a choir.
The kids learn weekly in groups sessions, up to 6-8, depending on class sizes and who opts for what and what we have handy. As they are working in a group, they can bounce of each other, get practical demonstrations (the teacher is a player) and ar encouraged to make a good sound from the outset.
One kid who started last year made a huge fat sound on day 1, enrolled in private lessons 2 weeks later, sat and exam a few months after that (passing with honours) and got his own horn for Christmas. Keen as anything, and making steady progress. I'm finding this is just as common as the ones who simply can't make a great sound. The thing that really makes a difference is parental support and encouragement. This kis it in spades, as does one on rom one who is using his Dad's old axe.
The ones made to use a mute, ar restricted in their noise making, etc seem to do not so well...
Cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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furcifer Veteran Member
Joined: 24 May 2014 Posts: 155 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Within about 15-20 minutes, if by "usable trumpet sound", you only mean on one note.
Oddly enough, I pulled this off with a volunteer who had no intention of ever playing any instrument as part of an assignment for my "Speech for Teachers" class. This class was on the Secondary Ed track and scheduled at night, so I was the only undergrad music major in that class. I got an "A" for the "beginner" getting a "G", LOL!
It's possible that everybody felt a bit sorry for me, since I had lugged a Trombone, a French Horn and my Trumpet to that class, so I define this sound as "usable" by the culmination of an in-tune triad from the 3 volunteers. Keep in mind that I also had to go over how to hold the horns, breathe, tongue the note, etc., within that time, and I was graded on each step. It's all about setting them up for success in an environment where they can't really fail. _________________ Stomvi S3 Big Bell -2018
Bach 180ST37 -'80
Benge CG -'78
Buescher LP 9 -1926
Getzen 896S-4 flugel -'86
Conn 18H bone -'64
Getzen M2003E Bb/G bugle
Getzen Titleist 2v soprano G -'79
King K-50 G mellophone
Henri Gautier Cornet C/Bb/A -1919 |
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ATrumpetBrony Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Posts: 152 Location: Detroit
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: |
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I had trombone student once in high school- a girl maybe 3 years under me. The band director mentioned that we needed bones, so she switched from alto sax.
In our first (and unfortunately, last - she quit shortly after) lesson, I had her play a lot of long tones, and at one point got her to hold out one note while I egged her on to double the air and double the air, until she FINALLY got a good trombone sound.
It was AWESOME to see that it's possible for even the very first beginners to make good sounds right off the bat. There are of course MANY students for whom it's very difficult, especially those who might not necessarily have an 'ear' for good tone.
I've got another beginner on trombone right now and I'm having a tough time finding the method to teach her with because she is one who doesn't seem to quite have an 'ear' for great tone yet.
But I think most of all that it can be developed! _________________ ATB
It's not what you play...
It's HOW you play |
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BeboppinFool Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001 Posts: 6437 Location: AVL|NC|USA
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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I had the son of one of our area's best saxophonists, and when he came back after a week he actually had a mature trumpet sound (no kidding, it was a beautiful sound), even though it was only from about a low C to the G above the staff.
I started him in Doc Reinhardt's Beginner's Book and had him buzzing his lips before ever trying to play a note.
He did great for about two years and then got into skateboarding and then girls. He quit because of a lousy band director and his other interests which got in his way. Oh, well! _________________ Puttin’ On The Ritz |
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Bflatman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2016 Posts: 720
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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A complex question.
The problem as I see it is a teacher will not stress tone production but instead will teach everything else. It therefore takes many years for a beginner to develop a good tone.
I know a student who 4 years down the line sounds like a beginner.
Raw minimum timings
To develop a useable note 1 day
To develop a useable range 1 week
To play well and sound good 1 month
To sound lyrical and professional with good timing phrasing and articulation 3 months
If you give them lots of other things to work on, that divert them from working on phrasing tone and musicality and you should, then it can take up to 8 years to reach that same 3 month standard. Life is choices. |
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ATrumpetBrony Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Posts: 152 Location: Detroit
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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BeboppinFool wrote: | I had the son of one of our area's best saxophonists, and when he came back after a week he actually had a mature trumpet sound (no kidding, it was a beautiful sound)
He did great for about two years and then got into skateboarding and then girls. He quit because of a lousy band director and his other interests which got in his way. Oh, well! |
It always gets me right in the feels when I hear stories about kids who show potential in some way and then give it up. Seems like at that age, middle school and high school, a big priority shift really happens, unless kids are dedicated or *really* like music. _________________ ATB
It's not what you play...
It's HOW you play |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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ATrumpetBrony wrote: | I've got another beginner on trombone right now and I'm having a tough time finding the method to teach her with because she is one who doesn't seem to quite have an 'ear' for great tone yet. |
A bit off my own topic but speaking of a trombone player without an ear - an oddball story. There was a trombone player who was in the Army band I was in who had played for years. He passed the audition to get into the Army band program. He got through the School Of Music basic course all Army, Navy and Marine Corps. bandsmen are required to go through which included theory, sight-singing and ear training, stage, marching and concert ensemble rehearsals and individual instruction. He played several years in a base band. He was no Bill Watrous but he seemed to get the job done, seemed to be really into playing.
Per this guy's account - after the Army when he in college as a music major at some point his trombone instructor was trying to work on chronic issues he had with intonation. I don't recall the details of what led up to it but one day the instructor played pitches on a piano and instructed him to match them with his voice and found he couldn't do it. Upon making this discovery the instructor bluntly told him "you have to change your major" and left. Seems odd that he could get as far as he did with such a serious pitch-recognition issue. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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furcifer Veteran Member
Joined: 24 May 2014 Posts: 155 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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ATrumpetBrony wrote: | BeboppinFool wrote: | I had the son of one of our area's best saxophonists, and when he came back after a week he actually had a mature trumpet sound (no kidding, it was a beautiful sound)
He did great for about two years and then got into skateboarding and then girls. He quit because of a lousy band director and his other interests which got in his way. Oh, well! |
It always gets me right in the feels when I hear stories about kids who show potential in some way and then give it up. Seems like at that age, middle school and high school, a big priority shift really happens, unless kids are dedicated or *really* like music. |
Few of today's kids see the value in a lifetime of study and engagement in anything artistic. Everything else in their life is about instant gratification, personal gain or the drudgery of "assigned" work. Most of their friends will never engage such a "life endeavor", so they feel weird, geekish and ostracized unless it quickly translates into social benefits. "Band" is usually regarded as more of a compartmentalized support group for nerds than a cool thing on campus. The reality is that the band actually wears what amounts to the "dress uniform" for the school, so, a lot of directors can help their own cause by driving that "cool factor" of the band at pep rallies and all that kind of school activity stuff. Almost every kid joined because they thought it MIGHT be be fun, but can they see it as the MOST fun thing they will do over the long term? _________________ Stomvi S3 Big Bell -2018
Bach 180ST37 -'80
Benge CG -'78
Buescher LP 9 -1926
Getzen 896S-4 flugel -'86
Conn 18H bone -'64
Getzen M2003E Bb/G bugle
Getzen Titleist 2v soprano G -'79
King K-50 G mellophone
Henri Gautier Cornet C/Bb/A -1919 |
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dershem Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1887 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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My great-nephew got a sound almost immediately, and a decent one within 10 minutes. It took him another 15 minutes or so to be able to play 2 different notes (C and G). His grandpa was overjoyed, and then started wondering why he'd wasted the years he didn't play. Grandpa started at 4, grandson at 2 1/2. Grandson is now 4 and plays occasionally, but grandpa died and isn't there to give lessons any more. (I'd step in but they are 1200 miles away). |
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