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UNT: Is the magic gone?


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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: UNT: Is the magic gone? Reply with quote

I've been out of the loop for many years with regard to University programs. I just noticed the trumpet faculty and jazz department and I'm amazed at the absence of names I was used to seeing forever.

No more Doc Candelaria or Keith Johnson. Jay Saunders just retired I saw as well. I'm glad to see Mike Steinel is still teaching on campus, that guy is brilliant.

Since Neil Slater left it seems the jazz department has been trying to re identify itself. I'm sure the department is still a jazz ed Mecca of the US, but it doesn't seem to be putting out the players it once did.

The last herd of players I used to follow from UNT from the 90s seemed to be the last wave of a dynasty. Since Don Jacoby passed there doesn't seem to be players like Frank Greene, Adolfo Acosta, or Scott Englebright anymore.

I was listening to One O'Clock lab band recordings yesterday, from the 70s through this last year. And times have certainly changed. I mean the bands sound great today, but the energy has most definitely changed.

And I wonder if this pattern is just at Noth Texas or if this is a theme at all the schools today. UNT used to be so cut throat, competitive and killer. Doesn't seem to have that vibe anymore.

Am I wrong?
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bmw0086
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Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: UNT: Is the magic gone? Reply with quote

trumpet.sanity wrote:
I've been out of the loop for many years with regard to University programs. I just noticed the trumpet faculty and jazz department and I'm amazed at the absence of names I was used to seeing forever.

No more Doc Candelaria or Keith Johnson. Jay Saunders just retired I saw as well. I'm glad to see Mike Steinel is still teaching on campus, that guy is brilliant.

Since Neil Slater left it seems the jazz department has been trying to re identify itself. I'm sure the department is still a jazz ed Mecca of the US, but it doesn't seem to be putting out the players it once did.

The last herd of players I used to follow from UNT from the 90s seemed to be the last wave of a dynasty. Since Don Jacoby passed there doesn't seem to be players like Frank Greene, Adolfo Acosta, or Scott Englebright anymore.

I was listening to One O'Clock lab band recordings yesterday, from the 70s through this last year. And times have certainly changed. I mean the bands sound great today, but the energy has most definitely changed.

And I wonder if this pattern is just at Noth Texas or if this is a theme at all the schools today. UNT used to be so cut throat, competitive and killer. Doesn't seem to have that vibe anymore.

Am I wrong?


Yes.
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: UNT: Is the magic gone? Reply with quote

bmw0086 wrote:
trumpet.sanity wrote:
I've been out of the loop for many years with regard to University programs. I just noticed the trumpet faculty and jazz department and I'm amazed at the absence of names I was used to seeing forever.

No more Doc Candelaria or Keith Johnson. Jay Saunders just retired I saw as well. I'm glad to see Mike Steinel is still teaching on campus, that guy is brilliant.

Since Neil Slater left it seems the jazz department has been trying to re identify itself. I'm sure the department is still a jazz ed Mecca of the US, but it doesn't seem to be putting out the players it once did.

The last herd of players I used to follow from UNT from the 90s seemed to be the last wave of a dynasty. Since Don Jacoby passed there doesn't seem to be players like Frank Greene, Adolfo Acosta, or Scott Englebright anymore.

I was listening to One O'Clock lab band recordings yesterday, from the 70s through this last year. And times have certainly changed. I mean the bands sound great today, but the energy has most definitely changed.

And I wonder if this pattern is just at Noth Texas or if this is a theme at all the schools today. UNT used to be so cut throat, competitive and killer. Doesn't seem to have that vibe anymore.

Am I wrong?


Yes.


Alright. Like I said, I've been out of the loop for a long time. I'm glad to see Alan Baylock on faculty. I can't think of anybody more qualified.

Can you list some recent UNT trumpet player grads I should be listening to? I'd like to have my opinion changed about the state of UNT. There just doesn't seem to be the buzz coming out of Denton that there once was. Maybe I'm missing something, and I'd like to be corrected.
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Link


It's only been a few years since Snarky Puppy won a couple of Grammys.

Also, watch any the top military bands and you're probably watching UNT grads new and old; or check your local college faculty, they're hanging out there too.
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Trumpetmannj
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to a music factory college too and thought the same thing seeing one of their bands online. Think part of that is the older you get, you separate yourself so far from college level players. You are a pro and they are students and there is a big difference in ability. Of course you remember it in your head as being so ich better. That's what I think anyway.
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kshtrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are great young musicians coming out of there for sure. If we are talking primarily about jazz trumpet players, check out Stuart Mack on YouTube! He's one recent grad.
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: UNT: Is the magic gone? Reply with quote

trumpet.sanity wrote:
bmw0086 wrote:
trumpet.sanity wrote:
I've been out of the loop for many years with regard to University programs. I just noticed the trumpet faculty and jazz department and I'm amazed at the absence of names I was used to seeing forever.

No more Doc Candelaria or Keith Johnson. Jay Saunders just retired I saw as well. I'm glad to see Mike Steinel is still teaching on campus, that guy is brilliant.

Since Neil Slater left it seems the jazz department has been trying to re identify itself. I'm sure the department is still a jazz ed Mecca of the US, but it doesn't seem to be putting out the players it once did.

The last herd of players I used to follow from UNT from the 90s seemed to be the last wave of a dynasty. Since Don Jacoby passed there doesn't seem to be players like Frank Greene, Adolfo Acosta, or Scott Englebright anymore.

I was listening to One O'Clock lab band recordings yesterday, from the 70s through this last year. And times have certainly changed. I mean the bands sound great today, but the energy has most definitely changed.

And I wonder if this pattern is just at Noth Texas or if this is a theme at all the schools today. UNT used to be so cut throat, competitive and killer. Doesn't seem to have that vibe anymore.

Am I wrong?


Yes.


Alright. Like I said, I've been out of the loop for a long time. I'm glad to see Alan Baylock on faculty. I can't think of anybody more qualified.

Can you list some recent UNT trumpet player grads I should be listening to? I'd like to have my opinion changed about the state of UNT. There just doesn't seem to be the buzz coming out of Denton that there once was. Maybe I'm missing something, and I'd like to be corrected.


Jason Bergman is definitely qualified to carry on the Johnson mantle, but by your logic, UNT would technically have been irrelevant since before the names you mentioned retired.

However, you are wrong, and missing quite a bit. Go to YouTube and look him up and his albums. Schools go through turn over rates as professors retire or get older, and it takes time to establish new dynamics or return to "glory days". I can tell you for certain that Dr. Bergman will make it so.
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denton and UNT's own Snarky Puppy won another Grammy the other night.
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseLindE4 wrote:
Denton and UNT's own Snarky Puppy won another Grammy the other night.


Wow, that's cool. They won the best pop album Grammy right?
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best Contemporary Instrumental Album, which I guess is the same as Best Pop Instrumental Album.


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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseLindE4 wrote:
Best Contemporary Instrumental Album, which I guess is the same as Best Pop Instrumental Album.


Link


Cool, a Little Rock, little r&b, little go-go (DC style), little Cajun, little groove, little Latin, little funk...little bit of everything. Good on them!!
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kuosuum
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't speak to the jazz side of things at UNT.

However, I can speak to the classical aspect of the trumpet studio. I visited there this fall doing a recital, two masterclasses and multiple individual lessons with students of all ages.

John Holt and Jason Bergman are doing a great job there. They work together wonderfully and are very supportive of each other. They have different strengths that complement each other. They don't step on each other's toes.

Jason brings an energy that is hard to find anywhere. He's really trying to build a powerhouse studio at UNT and is well on the way to being there.

John brings so much experience to the studio from his time in Italy to his current position with the Dallas Opera, not to mention his great experience in a more administrative role.

Both of these guys are great players in their own right. Check out the recordings!!!

Bill Campbell
Prof of Trumpet
University of Michigan
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jasonbergman
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: UNT Reply with quote

Dear Trumpet.Sanity,

While I'm not really sure who you are, or why you would post such an unproductive post on this site, there is some truth to main point of your argument. We can do better at UNT. We're not where we want to be YET. But we are improving leaps and bounds each day. We have big goals and are united in achieving them. It's staggering to see the progress and positive change that we've had in the last two years alone.

Not that your post really merits a response, I do have a few points to make.

1. Keith Johnson, Leonard Candelaria, John Haynie, Jay Saunders, etc. all started somewhere. They weren't born all-stars. As with any professional sports team, you have to let those you draft become all-stars. The legacy of the UNT trumpet studio suggests that we have a proven track record of our faculty (in every area) grow into those types of roles. I want to improve and grow so that I can help our students in the most energizing and productive ways possible. Sports teams can build through the draft, or through free-agency (i.e. Alex Rodriquez). I just got drafted (and wasn't a splashy free agent hire). I am in the middle of my second season. Check back in 10 years.

2. You mention being out of the loop... I am on the front lines and I can assure you that the University of North Texas is in great hands in every department and every division. My colleagues - jazz, voice, strings, piano, woodwind, and brass, etc. - are all incredible artists, teachers, and people. Come and visit. Come in from the sidelines. I'd love to introduce you to our faculty and students. I think you'd be shocked at the great instruction and artistry on our campus.

3. There actually is a pretty good buzz (pun intended) growing about our program. We're one of MANY great trumpet studios in this country. I'm friends with just about all of the trumpet professors at well-known (and lesser known) programs in the United States. I can assure you that every professor is doing their absolute best to help students achieve a wide variety of goals. Until you really visit, observe, and see the quality of teaching at a particular institution, it can be difficult to create an honest evaluation of a program. However, we're all striving for excellence.

4. In addition to the support in the posts on this forum, feel free to talk to Keith Johnson or Leonard Candelaria personally. They can both speak about how it's going now at UNT.

I appreciate you providing an opportunity for UNT to be in the discussion. We welcome anyone to visit our campus, hear our ensembles, listen to our trumpet players, and to see what's going on. We've got our own identity. We're trying to be great trumpet players, but better people. We're not trying to be like other programs, and we're not even trying to be the UNT of the 1990s. We're the UNT of 2017 and we're on the right track.

Sincerely,

Jason Bergman
Assistant Professor of Trumpet
University of North Texas
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jason, thanks for the reply.

I think another important variable is just how many schools besides UNT offer jazz studies programs. And great players are scattered among them, instead of just focused and limited to say a UNT or Berklee.

I'm glad to hear your excitement for the program, and hope and wish you all the success in the world.

Instead of labeling this thread "UNT: is the magic gone" I should have said "Jazz ed: is the magic gone" and not pigeonholed just UNT. It seems a lot of programs are going through a transitional time in the jazz departments.

In the early 90s at UNT I remember watching the 1 o'clock rehearsals in utter awe of the players. And there was an attitude and confidence I just don't see anymore. At UNT or anywhere else. I was in NY a couple weeks back and snuck in to NYU, New School and MSM to have a listen to some rehearsals, and the attitude, hunger and level of players I saw, are not what I remember in the late 80s and 90s at N Texas.

I put much of the onerousness on the players, not just the professors. The mentality of this generation is light years away from the state of mind, level of entitlement and hunger of guys I went to school with.

I'm sure UNT is in good hands, and I look forward to hearing a new herd of monster players coming from Denton. Best of luck!!
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Heim
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do believe that you have the ability to change the title, don't you?
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one reason that we don't hear about individual players as much anymore is the "live" gigs continue to dry up.

I support the One' O'Clock Lab Band every year by purchasing their annual recording (CD) and I haven't noticed the quality going down. Their recordings are superb both in quality and arrangements/composition.

I began doing this as a fan of Steve Weiss; however, continue to do so without regret.
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trumpet.sanity
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RussellDDixon wrote:
I think one reason that we don't hear about individual players as much anymore is the "live" gigs continue to dry up.

I support the One' O'Clock Lab Band every year by purchasing their annual recording (CD) and I haven't noticed the quality going down. Their recordings are superb both in quality and arrangements/composition.

I began doing this as a fan of Steve Weiss; however, continue to do so without regret.


Russel,

I agree about the work continuing to dry up, and departments hurting for funding, and more schools thinning the great players to so many different schools are all variables.

Ever listen to the 1 o'clock when Neil Slater ran the department? Killer bands over the years as well as Steve Weiss' bands.

There's some stuff from the 70s floating around YouTube that is a blast to listen to. A bit more raw, but burnin bands.
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpet.sanity wrote:
College campuses only allow certain opinions these days as well. Theres a safe-space waiting at a campus near you!! Reality isn't welcome there either.


I hear this from time to time. I work in higher education and am not THAT far removed from finishing up my schooling. In my many years in higher ed, I don't think I ever heard politics brought up or discussed by a professor. Even for professors that I am/was close to, I really have no idea what their political beliefs are.

I guess I just went to and worked at good schools where professionalism and commitment to the task at hand (training musicians) were valued. If only every place I traverse could have such dignity.

Mr. Johnson left some big shoes to fill, but institutions like UNT need new blood to keep things from getting stagnant. Continuity is good, but so is occasional change. In watching Professor Campbell's students in academia, they've tended to model their studios (and found great success) on the things that have made his so successful. I have no doubt that UNT is in good hands.
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agolden
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a couple clips of friends who went to UNT recently.

Tyler Mire & myself.

Link


Thomas Eby & Tyler Mire (Lead & Split Lead)

Link


Thomas Davis (Split Lead & a good improvisor)

Link


Jason Levi (Killer Vegas guy)

Link


James Blackwell (LA guy & has a trumpet pedagogy Youtube Channel which is full of really valuable information)
http://www.youtube.com/user/BwellsTrumpetBasics


Stuart Mack (NYC)

Link


Daniel Matthews (DFW)

Link


And a shameless plug for myself.

Link



There are plenty of great players getting pumped out of UNT.

-Andrew
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Numerous posts removed. Please refrain from personal attacks and other comments against the UA or this thread will be closed.

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