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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:35 pm Post subject: I found my holy grail, and now I'm terrified. |
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I know you should never pick/try mouthpieces because they are used by <insert famous player here>, but I admit, I'd always wanted to try a "real" 1C rim/5B cup setup, à la Phil Smith.
I found one on eBay recently -- probably paid a bit too much, but I bought it. The seller said the work was done by Jeff Parke. It looks like a pre big-letter, post corp. piece by the stamping on the 5B underpart. According to the seller Parke widened the cup a bit in the top half to match the 1C rim and put in a 24/24 setup. I will add that the top part of the cup is raw brass as a result, I'm hoping/assuming since that doesn't come in direct contact with me, that's okay...right? Also, I'm not sure if it's the Hagstrom or the Merkelo 24...but, whatever it is, I don't care. This particular 1C rim is also quite comfortable. I'm not sure what generation it's from, but it felt like a comfortable pair of shoes I'd already broken in.
I once read an interview with David Bilger where he said something like "when you find the right mouthpiece you'll feel like you unlocked a secret code" (I'm paraphrasing badly from memory, but it was something like that).
I thought I had experienced that before, but this was the most profound experience with a mouthpiece I've ever experienced. It's quite sublime. E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. is easier. I feel like I suddenly, overnight really learned how to play the trumpet. I've never experienced real, ear-buzzing, head-rattling resonance when I played before, but everything lines up just right with this thing, and it's quite astonishing. I can pick up the horn cold, and with a whisper or a roar produce a clear, ringing, resonate tone. I've never been able to do that before this easily. It's hard to explain.
I know, honeymoon period and all that jazz, but for real guys. This thing is special (at least for me). I've even got another mouthpiece on the way from a fellow TH'er I've been wanting to try, and now I'm hesitant to even try it when it gets here, because I don't want to mess up any mojo that might be going on, haha. I know that is silly, but that's just how I feel at this point.
I've tried Curry "BC" pieces and Parke 285 cups, both which are supposed to be similar to a setup like this, but at least with this specimen, they aren't, at least not in how they play and sound.
I almost feel like I won the lottery or something.
Anyway, I know it's all silly, and probably just in my head, but I wanted to share.
Now...I'm terrified I'll lose it or something will happen to it.
J.
_________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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maxfinis Regular Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2013 Posts: 45
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Great post. Congratulations. Most safaris don't end as triumphantly or definitively as yours. (Downside is that you have no excuse to blame your equipment now!) The best thing is that you seem to have found the perfect rim. I can't comment on the raw brass on the cup (I would have left the uneven edge as is), but the good thing is that you can now thread another cup to your 1C if the 5B underpart doesn't work out. My memory of Bilger's comment is that a new piece should feel good instantly, and that one shouldn't expect a prolonged acclimation period to realize it's the right fit, something like that. |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Here is what the inside of the cup looks like:
It matches up perfectly. _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2047 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulations on finding the "right" mouthpiece for you! Out of curiosity, have you tried the Stork New York series S1? Stork describes it as a Mount Vernon 5B cup fit to a 1C rim. |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats, nothing like a safari-killer to make you relax and just make music better!
I'd personally want to get the cup plated to be on the safe side, but if you're sure your lips aren't touching it then it should be okay. |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Dayton wrote: | Congratulations on finding the "right" mouthpiece for you! Out of curiosity, have you tried the Stork New York series S1? Stork describes it as a Mount Vernon 5B cup fit to a 1C rim. |
I haven't. I did a search on here about those once, and John Urness (johntpt) had posted that it didn't feel much like a 1C rim at all to him...plus they are fairly expensive.
At least now that I have a good 1C rim, I can get some calipers and measure at the junction point, and it'll be easy to get different underparts.
I really think this 5B cup is where the magic is happening. The bottom of the cup and the throat entrance are very relaxed, and it just works beautifully. _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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trumpetman.rob Regular Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 Posts: 34
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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That's sweet. I've been looking for one myself. |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Jasonr,
Glad to hear you found a piece you like.
I do have a question.
I have a Bach 1C that I really like. However, for the past three months I have been playing a Curry 3C exclusively because I am practicing using the Claude Gordon Systematic Approach which includes quite a bit of work in the upper register (from high C to double high C). The 1C is comfortable and I love the sound (more than the 3C), but with the larger piece I don't have the endurance to use it for practice in the upper register.
Do you regularly practice notes in the extreme high register? Are you able to use your mouthpiece to practice notes above high C?
Regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Grits Burgh wrote: | Jasonr,
Glad to hear you found a piece you like.
I do have a question.
I have a Bach 1C that I really like. However, for the past three months I have been playing a Curry 3C exclusively because I am practicing using the Claude Gordon Systematic Approach which includes quite a bit of work in the upper register (from high C to double high C). The 1C is comfortable and I love the sound (more than the 3C), but with the larger piece I don't have the endurance to use it for practice in the upper register.
Do you regularly practice notes in the extreme high register? Are you able to use your mouthpiece to practice notes above high C?
Regards,
Grits |
I'm not an extreme high-note player by any means. The highest note I truly "own" is high E on my Bb (and high D on my C), and some days they feel like a rent-to-own where I missed a payment, haha. I can sometimes get higher, but I don't feel like I own (or can even rent) those notes...if they are there, they are squeaks at best. _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1102 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: I found my holy grail, and now I'm terrified. |
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jaysonr wrote: | I once read an interview with David Bilger where he said something like "when you find the right mouthpiece you'll feel like you unlocked a secret code" (I'm paraphrasing badly from memory, but it was something like that).
I thought I had experienced that before, but this was the most profound experience with a mouthpiece I've ever experienced. It's quite sublime. E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. is easier. I feel like I suddenly, overnight really learned how to play the trumpet. I've never experienced real, ear-buzzing, head-rattling resonance when I played before, but everything lines up just right with this thing, and it's quite astonishing. I can pick up the horn cold, and with a whisper or a roar produce a clear, ringing, resonate tone. I've never been able to do that before this easily. It's hard to explain.
...
I almost feel like I won the lottery or something.
Anyway, I know it's all silly, and probably just in my head, but I wanted to share.
Now...I'm terrified I'll lose it or something will happen to it.
J.
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I know precisely how you feel. A friend recently let me try a Marcinkiewicz made by Jon Lewis while he was still working there. It's based on a 1 1/2 rim, has a 25 throat and some kind of hybrid backbore. It does everything I need it to, with a fat resonant sound and an ease of playing I've never experienced in any other mouthpiece.
I'm freaking out because there is no other mouthpiece like this anywhere. It's one of many Jon Lewis made while he was making his own mouthpieces. I don't even think Marcinkiewicz has this one on file.
So now I'm guarding it with my life until I have enough to pay Curry to scan and copy it. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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Dr. Manhattan Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2016 Posts: 102 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Congradulations!
I still feel like I am on a mouthpiece safari, though I am getting closer and closer! Maybe another 20 years to go to be sure!
About 4 years ago I found the right horn, getting close with the mouthpiece, and now............ a Trumpet case and combo case safari! I guess that comes with being a trumpet player!
Again,
Congrats on the Mouthpiece find! _________________ Several Trumpets and Flugelhorns!
Trying to thin the small herd!! |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: I found my holy grail, and now I'm terrified. |
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jaysonr wrote: |
Now...I'm terrified I'll lose it or something will happen to it.
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And thus you discover why so many of us know it is impossible to replicate a mpc. Scans don't really cut it. The Kanstul mpc comparator doesn't even much come close. Many explain all this by saying "light is magic," in that the optical scans may accurately pick up light bouncing around, but not necessarily the metal.
Some really work their craft, maintaining very exacting tolerances. Of course if it's made by a great machinist with a CNC, it can be duplicated very well, assuming the file has saved all parameters.
I think your magic piece has a certain aesthetic appeal, just as it is. You should try some of the mentioned pieces designed to do what you've got, not thinking any of them would be the same, but just to have something close. Just in case. And to find out what comes closest for you, while there is no pressure.
When I found my 'magic mpc,' much like yours, I quickly found I cannot afford to play it. It limits my upper register too much, and that's what I get paid to do. And I can't switch from it to my best lead mpc and retain my ability to play it. (I'm good for about 3 days of practicing both, but after that I lose it)
So enjoy what you've got, and congrats! |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm not a high range player ( anything above high C is questionable on any given day ) but I do play a lot of music with a G or A above the scale and I find that difficult with a 3C, so a 1 1/2C would be way too big for me. Before my come back last spring, I played for 12 years in the 50s and 60s. I played a Bach 10 1/2 C and it served me well. Since my comeback I've tried different size mps and I keep coming back to the 10 1/2C but my main one now is the CW rim version and I also use an A cup ( very deep ) version now and then for that cornet sound. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1474 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:08 am Post subject: |
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jaysonr wrote: | Here is what the inside of the cup looks like:
It matches up perfectly. |
maybe there is a Holy Grail after all. By the look of your photo my last piece, the borrowed Jettone Studio C, is a look-alike! Kinda combined C/V cup? Maybe yours could have a somewhat rounder rim?
Posting my concerns about the Jettone the other day I now find I can use it, flatter rim or not.
Should we thus consider ourselves blessed? _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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ruotjoh Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2011 Posts: 115 Location: Finland
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:23 am Post subject: |
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I'm truly happy for you! It's a magical moment when everything seems to match with a new mouthpiece but still I've been there for several times and when the honeymoon is over things start to change and the One might become paperweight. You really can't tell if it's good match for you in the long term until you have played it couple months. Good luck anyway! |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Seymor B Fudd wrote: |
maybe there is a Holy Grail after all. By the look of your photo my last piece, the borrowed Jettone Studio C, is a look-alike! Kinda combined C/V cup? Maybe yours could have a somewhat rounder rim?
Posting my concerns about the Jettone the other day I now find I can use it, flatter rim or not.
Should we thus consider ourselves blessed? |
If I'm remembering Jet Tone cups correctly, there is probably some similarity in basic shape, as well as with Curry BC pieces which are similar to a 1-piece version of this.
The cup would much deeper that a Jet Tone though (at least any I've ever seen). _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:34 am Post subject: |
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ruotjoh wrote: | I'm truly happy for you! It's a magical moment when everything seems to match with a new mouthpiece but still I've been there for several times and when the honeymoon is over things start to change and the One might become paperweight. You really can't tell if it's good match for you in the long term until you have played it couple months. Good luck anyway! |
I'm hopeful the honeymoon doesn't wear off.
I'm sure it will not be the last piece I ever play, especially as it is not suited to every style of playing -- it's an Orchestral piece for sure. But it sure is playing great right now!
I'm hopeful the other piece I have coming will work nearly as well when I need something a bit brighter (it's a Pickett MC-1, Mark Clodfelter piece, which if I understand correctly is his favorite 1C rim on a cup that is very slightly shallower than a 1C normally would be, maybe more like a 1-1/4C cup). _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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jaysonr Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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It's the cup that is magical, and perhaps whatever 24 backbore Jeff Parke put in, but I think it's the cup.
I have a 1C here, stock 27/10, and I just spent some time side-by-side playing. The rims feel identical. I closed my eyes and had someone handing me the pieces w/o telling me which was which, sometimes handing me the same piece in sequence, etc., and I couldn't tell them apart.
The 1C/5B is a considerably "larger" piece both in cup and considering the more open throat/backbore.
There is simply something magical about this 5B cup.
Everything is easier, and accuracy is spot on, on both Bb and C.
Sound, articulation, accuracy, soft, loud (I don't think you can play too loud on this thing, it just keeps going, and going...), intonation. Everything. I finally found it. Eureka! The one! _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2 |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2534 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulations! I know the safari you have been on.... _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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KerryParker Regular Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2017 Posts: 14
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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What a find!! How'd you come across it? |
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