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jhatpro
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:07 am Post subject: Booking Weddings |
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Our swing band is really coming along. We played our first decent paying hotel gig recently. Now we're trying to get into the wedding band circuit.
We figure our book of swing and jazz standards will probably make us unacceptable to the younger, first-wedding crowd so we'd like to zero in on older couples who want a band that plays danceable tunes and isn't so loud you lose a filling.
Is there a shortcut to finding such clients? Any other tips for a band new to the wedding market?
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Lawler Bb
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derekthor
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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| I play a regular swing dance night in St. Paul, and a typical crowd is probably 60-70% teenagers and folks in their 20s. Don't discount that crowd entirely. |
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trumpet.sanity
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Joined: 24 Oct 2016
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Booking Weddings |
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| jhatpro wrote: | Our swing band is really coming along. We played our first decent paying hotel gig recently. Now we're trying to get into the wedding band circuit.
We figure our book of swing and jazz standards will probably make us unacceptable to the younger, first-wedding crowd so we'd like to zero in on older couples who want a band that plays danceable tunes and isn't so loud you lose a filling.
Is there a shortcut to finding such clients? Any other tips for a band new to the wedding market? |
Even with a wedding gig, a big band won't be very lucrative for the musos. I've played in some scaled down bands 3 trumpets, 2-3 saxes, 1-2 bones + rhythm section and singers. And at the end of the day, not hardly enough money to justify the gig.
Some times we got regular dinner plates, often band-wiches lol and no booze.
There's still work for wedding bands, but DJs have all but destroyed that market. So it's not as easy as it once was. Top 40 band would be easier than a dance band, but both are not easy these days.
Going to wedding conferences has yielded gigs. Where they have trade-show like events selling catering companies, clothing, bar companies, and of course entertainment. A web site would help, as would an agent. Which all cost time and money obviously.
The late 90s and early 2000s there was a cool resurgence of dance band stuff going mainstream ( Stray Cats, Big Bad Voodoo Daddies, Cherry Poppin Daddies etc) and there was a good amount of new work for a short period. That was fun ( Thanks Swingers"... Vegas baby, Vegas) |
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jhatpro
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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We've been playing a local bar restaurant whose owner pays us the grand sum of $200. We now have 11 musicians because we just added a second trumpet player. Changing ten 20s into whatever an equal amount for eleven players is such a hassle I forgo my pay.
We asked for a raise to $400 and I thought I was going to have to call 911. I lowered our request to $300 and he was still coughing blood. Finally he suggested he could go to $230.
Again the hassle of making change. So I declined. Said we'd still play for $200 and he could give the $30 to the guy who waters the drinks.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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snichols
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jhatpro wrote: | We've been playing a local bar restaurant whose owner pays us the grand sum of $200. We now have 11 musicians because we just added a second trumpet player. Changing ten 20s into whatever an equal amount for eleven players is such a hassle I forgo my pay.
We asked for a raise to $400 and I thought I was going to have to call 911. I lowered our request to $300 and he was still coughing blood. Finally he suggested he could go to $230.
Again the hassle of making change. So I declined. Said we'd still play for $200 and he could give the $30 to the guy who waters the drinks. |
That bar owner was paying $200 for a 10 piece band? |
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Ed Kennedy
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| snichols wrote: | | jhatpro wrote: | We've been playing a local bar restaurant whose owner pays us the grand sum of $200. We now have 11 musicians because we just added a second trumpet player. Changing ten 20s into whatever an equal amount for eleven players is such a hassle I forgo my pay.
We asked for a raise to $400 and I thought I was going to have to call 911. I lowered our request to $300 and he was still coughing blood. Finally he suggested he could go to $230.
Again the hassle of making change. So I declined. Said we'd still play for $200 and he could give the $30 to the guy who waters the drinks. |
That bar owner was paying $200 for a 10 piece band? |
Think of the great exposure. |
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Bflatman
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I am not in this game but if it was me, I would consider contacting all the wedding hire companies, suits, dresses, limos, cake makers, and caterers, all the businesses that have wedding trade in town and let them know what you have to offer, that networking should yield some business.
If you are good, the businesses may be glad to recommend you and they then do the selling for you. If you offer a slice of your fee to the trade recommending you the recommend is more likely, they then get extra money for nothing.
The same goes for wedding venues, halls, barns, hotels, theres gotta be plenty of venues who would want to recommend a good band that would make the wedding complete for their clientele.
A demo cd might be helpful that can be left with those businesses, and an advertising flyer and pricing policy would round the package off nicely.
Get some structured and targetted exposure. You can additionally and separately advertise as well to maximise the potential for earnings. |
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Bflatman
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed Kennedy wrote: | | snichols wrote: | | jhatpro wrote: | We've been playing a local bar restaurant whose owner pays us the grand sum of $200. We now have 11 musicians because we just added a second trumpet player. Changing ten 20s into whatever an equal amount for eleven players is such a hassle I forgo my pay.
We asked for a raise to $400 and I thought I was going to have to call 911. I lowered our request to $300 and he was still coughing blood. Finally he suggested he could go to $230.
Again the hassle of making change. So I declined. Said we'd still play for $200 and he could give the $30 to the guy who waters the drinks. |
That bar owner was paying $200 for a 10 piece band? |
Think of the great exposure. |
Sadly this does not surprise me, Here in England nobody wants to pay for music, I blame the internet and free downloads.
I have had good exposure for a very long time and frankly it aint worth the money its rotten on. All you can do is push for decent pay.
Good luck |
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trumpet.sanity
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| snichols wrote: | | jhatpro wrote: | We've been playing a local bar restaurant whose owner pays us the grand sum of $200. We now have 11 musicians because we just added a second trumpet player. Changing ten 20s into whatever an equal amount for eleven players is such a hassle I forgo my pay.
We asked for a raise to $400 and I thought I was going to have to call 911. I lowered our request to $300 and he was still coughing blood. Finally he suggested he could go to $230.
Again the hassle of making change. So I declined. Said we'd still play for $200 and he could give the $30 to the guy who waters the drinks. |
That bar owner was paying $200 for a 10 piece band? |
I don't know which is worse, if the bar owner paying $200 for a 10 piece, or the band playing for that little. It sets a standard that live music will accept that kind of money.
Sad.
I know the cliches that "the band will get exposure, or you can sell cds there, or it's a beginning and we'll renegotiate later"
If the music is exceptionally good, I'll play a big band gig for little money. But $20 for a four hour gig is pretty skinny. I hope you maybe get drinks and some food?
If nobody comes and the bar is empty when you play, then that's a different story, but if YOU are generating the traffic because of your live music, there should be some wiggle room in the pay. Especially if he is selling lots of booze, or making a couple, bucks at the door. $30 a man sounds a lot more reasonable, but still tragic. |
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snichols
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
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Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed Kennedy wrote: | | snichols wrote: | | jhatpro wrote: | We've been playing a local bar restaurant whose owner pays us the grand sum of $200. We now have 11 musicians because we just added a second trumpet player. Changing ten 20s into whatever an equal amount for eleven players is such a hassle I forgo my pay.
We asked for a raise to $400 and I thought I was going to have to call 911. I lowered our request to $300 and he was still coughing blood. Finally he suggested he could go to $230.
Again the hassle of making change. So I declined. Said we'd still play for $200 and he could give the $30 to the guy who waters the drinks. |
That bar owner was paying $200 for a 10 piece band? |
Think of the great exposure. |
Ha. I know, right?
I mean, I suppose if everyone in the group is on the same page about not caring about the money, and it's just for fun (free drinks at least?) then I guess that's fine. But you could be charging 5 times that amount. Maybe 10 times that amount for a wedding. This is all assuming the band sounds good, of course... |
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jhatpro
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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There are some truths here. Truth #1 is that musicians have always gotten the short end of the stick.
Truth #2 is that life is not fair. If it was OJ would be dead and Clifford would be alive.
Truth #3 is the bar owner is a moron. I've been playing trumpet in his miserable excuse for a bistro for going on a year and he still mistakes me for one of the bus boys. Same black shirt. Why not?
Truth #4 I've had it with people who say we're lowering the bar for others by agreeing to play for chump change. What would you have us do, oh holy ones?
Truth #5 The only reason we show up is it enables us to market the fact that we play in an actual restaurant for actual customers and, hopefully, that face will enable us to get a much better gig and thereby put this jamoke in our rear view mirror.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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trumpet.sanity
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Joined: 24 Oct 2016
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| jhatpro wrote: |
Truth #4 I've had it with people who say we're lowering the bar for others by agreeing to play for chump change. What would you have us do, oh holy ones? . |
What I have you do? To quote Nancy Reagan "Just say no"
Supply and demand reaches into the music industry as well. If there is no demand, there is no demand. No matter how badly you might want it to exist.
So I'd wait, try and find a different venue. Spend the time practicing instead of performing. Maybe after a week or so of saying "no thank you" the owner has a change of heart and offers you something closer to what you were asking.
Point of fact, he didn't meet your asking price when you were negotiating, but did offer you a 12% bump and you refused it but continued to work there at your original deal?
You are far from the only guy playing for low pay. We all do it. And it's a drag. But it's become the rule instead of the exception.
Have you asked for maybe a cover charge plus your $200/ night? Maybe $2 or $3 bucks at the door. Or make it higher like $6-8 but includes first draft beer or rail drink, then you get the rest.
Gotta be creative |
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jhatpro
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Just saying no hardly seems creative. We declined the 12 percent bump because it wouldn't have been worth the hassle to get everyone $23
We elected to keep playing for the original price because it's our only club gig at the moment. Dropping it and using the time to practice isn't going to get us in the door down the street.
Our strategy going forward is to get our music in front of as many people as possible and we're willing to work for little or nothing for awhile until we build some name recognition.
For example, on Fat Tuesday, Feb. 28, we're playing a freebie for 25 local churches that are raising money to put up a "faith home" for a needy family. We're putting out flyers for people to take and at intermission we're each going to mingle and offer business cards with our contact info.
We're also targeting weddings at a local venue that specializes in second weddings which are likely to be attended by older guests who will be a better market for our brand of classic swing.
And we're taking part in a vendor showcase conducted by local park districts so program executives can spend a day of one-stop booking and thereby fill their calendar of events in one fell swoop.
Meantime, we're not neglecting the importance of polishing the product. I've hired jazz educators to conduct a series of Jazz ensemble master classes for our regular players and subs.
We have a long ways to go to become a successful working band but the journey has begun and we're going to enjoy it.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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trumpet.sanity
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Well, with that extra $30 you could have added one more horn to the band, or a couple few pitchers of cheap brew. Or put the cash in the "band fund" to pay for copies, new charts, cables, nuts, bolts or whatever may come up.
But, like I said, and I'm sure you're very well aware, you're not alone. Lots and lots of musicians take low paying gigs. And if that's ok with you, nobody else's opinion should matter.
But, I would have kept the extra $30 for sure  |
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Brad361
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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I have no answers, but the 13 piece band I work with plays about 10-12 weddings per year, for a wedding we generally make 150-200 each guy, more often 150 though. That's not a lot of money, and we also are not Earth Wind and Fire by a long shot, but one reason we do get weddings every year really does have a lot to do with the dreaded "E" word.....exposure. We play about 50 + gigs per year, usually, and it's probably 60%clubs/bars/outdoor festivals (we're in Texas, lots of weather that's conducive to outdoor gigs), the rest private parties and weddings. Frequently the band leader will tell me that there are some people coming to a club gig to check us out for their wedding. I'm NOT suggesting Jim or anyone else work for peanuts just for "exposure", but playing venues where prospective wedding clients can come hear and see a band, in a real world setting IS valuable.....and that often means clubs.
It's a tough call deciding how little to accept from a bar just to get the band out there, but I think you have to have a realistic "minimum wage" that you will accept. You also don't want word getting around (lots of these bar owners do talk to each other) that you can be had dirt cheap; sometimes turning down a cheap gig might help a band more than accepting it. Like I said, I don't have all the answers, and it can be a Catch-22.
Brad
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Bflatman
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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I dont like judging or advising especially as I accept low pay as well, but look at the facts.
If I read this right you have been playing in that bar for over a year accepting a raw deal hoping it will open doors for you. Well it aint happened.
If it doesnt open doors after a year it wont ever open any doors. Do you want to look back in another 5 years time and say we still expect doors to open for us, sad about the car being reposessed but thats life.
I have faced the unpleasant truth many people are just morons and rip off artists who expect something for nothing and give no respect, and now I refuse their stupid demands.
Get off your ass do some real practice do something that really will open doors, a year is 6 months too long to have waited for the magical call to fame.
Make things happen dont wait around in hopeless dead end hoping for the best, be the best. |
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amzi
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Book a wedding, even if it has to be a freebie. Get someone who knows what they're doing to record the gig and produce a demo. Create a web page so people can contact you, hear what you sound like and see what you look like. Rent booths at Wedding Expos, play the video continually through a decent pair of speakers. Work the crowd, no one gets by you without a card, be prepared to book weddings on the spot. Offer incentives, maybe half off for one customers who fills out an interest card. Keep these interest cards and follow up in the days following the expo. (Jot some personal information on the back of the card so you can remember them--a good line is that you were impressed with them and wanted to make sure they could arrange the booking before all your dates were filled. Network with absolutely every vendor at the expo, not one should leave without personally talking to you and receiving information (including a price list) about booking your band. Get their information too and follow up with them as a way to encourage them to promote your band. That should get you started. And yes, set a reasonable fee--I was getting $20/hour for playing in a big band when I was in high school--I'm now collecting Social Security.
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jhatpro
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Well, the beat goes on - barely. Our piano player quit claiming that playing for $20 in a what is essentially a sports bar is hampering her career. And our vocalist says from now on she will sing only at gigs that pay $50 or more. Even Downbeat, our stuffed Beagle mascot, is grumpy.
Still I persist and there are signs of life. The freebie we played on Fat Tuesday yielded over $6,000 for "Habitat for Humanity." And the owner of a local jazz club told me today he might book us but only after he hears us at our next bar gig in April.
I have contacted half a dozen other live music venues in our area (Chicago's Western suburbs) but no sales yet. The area is awash in cover bands of every description.
As for weddings, I had a good conversation with the event manager of one of the most popular local wedding venues and at her suggestion sent her some marketing materials and 100 business cards.
But the best news is I landed an Easter gig that pays $400 just for playing in a brass quartet at two services. I'd have play that crummy bar gig twenty times to equal that. Maybe I've been barking up the wrong pew!
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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GeorgeB
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:09 am Post subject: |
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It's tough going for you, Jim, but you are being tenacious and these days it looks like you have to be.
I played with a 5 man combo in the 50s and 60s, which was certainly a different time for musicians. In our case, the local musicians union, especially in the 50s, did a lot of marketing and when weddings or other gigs were available it was posted. There was no internet those days so you had to check regularly with the union office to see if anything was worth pursuing. On average, we did about 8 or 10 weddings a year.
The fact that we played a regular Saturday night teen dance gig for 5 or 6 years helped. Some of these kids were pushing 20 and looking to get wed. We had a good reputation and through word of mouth picked up wedding gigs, as well as some private functions.
Today I play with community bands for zero $ because I just want to play.
Good luck.
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