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Centennialsound
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Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 60
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 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | Hi
I know that I keep harping on about this, and for this I truly apologise, but I really do think that the OP needs to bear in mind that he is looking for a mouthpiece for a Kanstul 1537 trumpet.
Although I haven't tried a Kanstul one piece trumpet mouthpiece, I have owned a couple of Kanstul B10 trumpet backbores. If they are as consistent as I've found the Kanstul B10 cornet backbores to be, then these two are representative of Kanstul B10 trumpet backbores in general.
Although I admittedly typically prefer less rather than more gap, and am currently in the process of having Jim New make me sleeves to decrease the gap slightly in my Bach 37, I play my Xeno II trumpet with a gap very similar to that of the supplied Yamaha 16C4 mouthpiece. I however had to have my original B10 trumpet backbore sleeved because it bottomed out in the receiver of my Bach 37 and didn't slot very well. I recently bought another used one, and it inserts subsequently more than the James R New backbores/6.5 sleeves combinations I use on my Xeno II, and is currently with Jim New to be sleeved.
It seems to me that if the Kanstul B10 trumpet backbores insert too far into my Bach 37 and Yamaha Xeno II, to the point that I've had to have them sleeved to insert less far, then a Bach 3C and possibly quite a few 3C style mouthpieces from other manufacturers (since my understanding is that Kanstul mouthpieces gap pretty similarly to Schilke mouthpieces, and insert further into the receiver than most) are likely to insert not far enough into a Kanstul trumpet to give the mouthpiece gap obtained with a Kanstul trumpet/Kanstul mouthpiece combination.
Maybe this doesn't matter to the OP or some other players, but as a player who prefers less rather than more gap, it matters to me. I really think that the OP needs to add mouthpiece gap as one more parameter to consider, or consider having whatever mouthpiece he ultimately chooses, sleeved to gap properly in his Kanstul 1537.
If the one piece Kanstul 3C supplied with the 1537 trumpet gaps differently to the B10 trumpet backbores, then obviously what I am saying is irrelevant, but I'm presuming that Kanstul use the same shank dimensions for their one piece models and modular backbores.
Anyway, I suppose what I am really saying, is that I believe that the choice of rim diameter, rim contour, cup depth and cup shape is player preference, with maybe some cup shapes and cup depths, and some throat sizes and backbore sizes/shapes generally working better on some makes/models of trumpet, and that although choice of gap is also player specific, that I really think that there is something in sticking along the lines of the gap built into the design, such as around 1/8" for a Bach trumpet/Bach mouthpiece combination.
Anyway, hopefully this will help.
If I was in the OPs situation, I'd contact Jim New. Not only was he the mouthpiece maker for Kanstul, and probably wholly or largely responsible for the design of the one piece Kanstul 3C supplied with the Kanstul 1537, and therefore a person who would know what mouthpieces are likely to be a good match, but his own mouthpiece range is already very highly regarded, his prices are very reasonable and his customer service is excellent.
That really would be my advice.
All the best
Lou |
Hey thanks lou,
I think you are right about the gapping.. I will be sure to talk to Jim New in the future when I look for other mouthpieces. I bought a nice standard b &s 1.5 c which I liked and it was well suited for my playing style and horn... I know, I know I was originally looking for the 3c but I think I'll start with the 1 1/2 c and acquire new mouthpieces throughout the years. I will be sure to pick up a Kanstul B series at some point, just not sure when. When looking for the mouthpiece I wasn't really paying attention to brand just more how it worked for me and how it worked with the horn.
Anyway, I think Curries will be next on my list to try in the near future,
Thanks a lot for the advice and opinions guys,
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Centennialsound wrote: |
Hey thanks lou,
Hi Con
You are very welcome.
I think you are right about the gapping..
Thanks. I believe that I'm right, but some could argue that I'm placing too much significance on gap. After experimenting with Jim New's gap modulator and sleeves, and feeling and hearing the difference for myself, I think that I am justified in seeing gap as important.
I will be sure to talk to Jim New in the future when I look for other mouthpieces.
I do feel that this would be useful.
I bought a nice standard b &s 1.5 c which I liked and it was well suited for my playing style and horn...
Great! As long as you like it and it suits you and your horn, and your playing playing situations, that it all that matters.
I know, I know I was originally looking for the 3c but I think I'll start with the 1 1/2 c and acquire new mouthpieces throughout the years.
A 1 1/2C is absolutely fine.
I will be sure to pick up a Kanstul B series at some point, just not sure when.
I definitely think they are worth a try, and the modular tops and backbores are often listed on the marketplace.
When looking for the mouthpiece I wasn't really paying attention to brand just more how it worked for me and how it worked with the horn.
That is the best way in my opinion to chose a mouthpiece. I've been coming from the opposite direction. I know what I like and have just been dialling in the gap to suit me on different horns.
Anyway, I think Curries will be next on my list to try in the near future,
Good mouthpieces to try in my opinion. I own a cornet 3DC., 3TC. and 3BBC., with the 3TC. being my favourite, but have not tried the trumpet models.
Thanks a lot for the advice and opinions guys,
You are very welcome.
Take Care
Lou |
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Centennialsound
Regular Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Take care too Lou,
and Thanks,
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- Con |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5464
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Centennialsound wrote: | Take care too Lou,
and Thanks, |
You are again very welcome, Con, and thanks very much also.
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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dcjway
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 118
Location: Wilmington, De
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I like my old New York Bach 3c, I think it's from the 1940's. It has a comfortable rim and seems a little deeper then a modern Bach. I payed $100 for it but to me it's priceless. |
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Centennialsound
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Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| dcjway wrote: | | I like my old New York Bach 3c, I think it's from the 1940's. It has a comfortable rim and seems a little deeper then a modern Bach. I payed $100 for it but to me it's priceless. |
If I run across one I'll be sure to try it. Glad you found a mouthpiece that you genuinely love.
Cheers,
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8911
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Hudson08 wrote: | | Another vote for Bob Reeves and his 42 series. I like the C and M cups with #2 backbore. The 69 bb is great too, but for more commercial stuff. Good luck! |
I've owned a Reeves 42 and it felt tiny compared to all the 3Cs I've played. Not that that's a bad thing. The Reeves 43 feels the closest in ID though it has a bit wider, cushiony rim (though not as wide as a Bach 3CW) . The Reeves 43N feels the closest to the Bach 3C in terms of rim width.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Jonesie
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 101
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Marcinkiewicz e3.1 is a great 3c alternative, it is a little Shallower, but has almost the exact same rim as my Curry 3c, the Marcinkiewicz gives me a great commercial sound on my Bach 25 |
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: |
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My favorite 3C is my copy of Arturo Sandoval's favorite Mt Vernon 3C (he has three, and like all Bach mouthpieces, each one is a little different than the others).
James R. New made this mouthpiece for me when he was still at Kanstul and it's wonderful. This particular mouthpiece is actually now part of James's standard line. It is his S5M with the S backbore. The only difference is the standard model comes with a #27 throat where as Arturo's 3C has a $24 throat (but one can order the S5m/S with a #24 throat from Jim).
Cheers,
John Mohan
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Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
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alanjk
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Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'm using a Curry 3C now and a Curry 3TF when I want a much darker sound. BUT, in spite of lots of frequent, short practice sessions for years I still struggle with endurance. Many of you have commented on the Bach 3C. Years ago, I was started on the Bach mouthpiece but the bite was very painful for me. The Curry was a big improvement in comfort. I'm wondering how the Curry compares to the newer Bach Artisan 3C which I have been told has a somewhat softer rim?
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9345
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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You'll never build much endurance by practicing in short bursts. You need to push yourself in longer practice sessions (getting less demanding as you tire) without beating your lip up.
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alanjk
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I practice until if I go longer the only way to play anything above the clef would be to press harder. That would cause swelling and is not something I've ever found useful |
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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@Alanjk:
Hmm...
It's the sort of thing you're only going to find out by experimenting - speaking solely for myself, I found the Curry 3. rim felt great initially but wasn't necessarily the most effective for me.
The other thing is that I find I tend to feel the bite and tend to resort to pressure more readily if I'm playing an ID that's larger than I need to - I can play big pieces, but I have to be more vigilant in preventing myself subconsciously resorting to pressure... and then I feel the bite more.
By what process did you decide on a 3C?
Is it just "it's middle of the road and it's what I've always used" ? Or did you try a few at some point and decide that that was the right model for you?
Have you tried going a little bit smaller and seeing whether that helps you out at all?
(Beware, if you want to try something smaller, the standard Curry series doesn't keep the same rim across sizes)
The more info you can give, the more helpful the replies you'll get will be  |
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Dale Proctor
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Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| alanjk wrote: | | I practice until if I go longer the only way to play anything above the clef would be to press harder. That would cause swelling and is not something I've ever found useful |
True, but that's what I was getting at. As you tire, don't force things. Confine your "tired" practice time to playing in and below the staff, taking short breaks as needed. As TKSop said, it's possible that a 3-sized mouthpiece may not agree with you. Mouthpiece safaris can be a slippery slope, though.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Mark Bradley
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Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Posts: 1149
Location: Kansas City
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:00 am Post subject: |
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The Schilke Symphony Series M3C.
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Blessing 1580
Bach 181SML cornet/ Laskey 60SB
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SMrtn
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Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 367
Location: Spain
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I recently bought a Bach 3C.....and it was a revelation. I'd been blowing through a Yamaha 11b4, being a relative newcomer to trumpet, and while the b4 is great for reaching high register stuff, the Bach just sounds richer, and is a more all round warm sound. I just love it. |
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