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Physical Approach -Lesson 10



 
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tomb
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:19 am    Post subject: Physical Approach -Lesson 10 Reply with quote

I'm going through Physical Approach and have a question on lesson 10.

Part 2 asks you to do part 3 of lesson 9, holding the last note til all air is exhausted and longer.

Now, the highest note prior to this is g on top of the staff in what one could reasonably call the range type exercises in the preceding lessons. Now, however, one is instructed to go to g on top of the staff quite shortly after starting the lesson and holding it as long as possible and longer.

Seems like a bit of an ask, or should I just harden up and get on with it?
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John Helmke
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you've been working on lesson 9 and successfully executed 100s of repetitions of Part 3 until it comes easily, moving to lesson 10 should not be too challenging. That being said, the first couple of days on ANY new lesson always freaks me out and seems impossibly difficult.

If you're really struggling you might consider one more week on lesson 9 but continuing part 3 beyond G. Pushing yourself up to A or Bb changes your attitude about G.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Physical Approach -Lesson 10 Reply with quote

tomb wrote:
I'm going through Physical Approach and have a question on lesson 10.

Part 2 asks you to do part 3 of lesson 9, holding the last note til all air is exhausted and longer.

Now, the highest note prior to this is g on top of the staff in what one could reasonably call the range type exercises in the preceding lessons. Now, however, one is instructed to go to g on top of the staff quite shortly after starting the lesson and holding it as long as possible and longer.

Seems like a bit of an ask, or should I just harden up and get on with it?


I don't have the book in front of me to double check the instructions, so assuming you are right about what it says (no insult to your reading comprehension abilities intended), having studied with Claude for many years and knowing him and his teaching and method quite well, this seems very extreme. In all my years studying with Claude, he never had me hold a note above middle C "until all air is gone and longer with an attempted crescendo as one runs out of air".

My recommendation is, do the exercises but only do the long hold up to the middle C. Once past that, just do a short (4 to 5 count) hold with a crescendo on the hold.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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EricV
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i really think its a mis print, part 3 of lesson 9 is the slurring excercises advising you to kick the air as you ascend, hold as long as you can is the instruction in part 2 of lesson 9.
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The comment is in both treble and bass clef versions. When I went through Claude's pedagogy class I remember asking about that because I would add to the first line of page 19 all 7 fingerings and sometimes pedals at the end. The point is flexibility and tongue level. Notice as you move through the beginning of the book he adds the long holds onto some of the easy chromatic material. This also demonstrates how he was quickly getting away from just holding one static note but putting that hold at the end of a series of moving notes. The long hold develops Wind Power. All of Claude's teaching was focused on getting flexibility and the ability to freely move around the horn as opposed to others that think strength comes from developing muscle strength or the ability to stay tight or firm for a long time. When you experience it you know it's different.

On a related note I saw Chicago a couple nights ago and Lee Loughhane played so easy and he's 70! You don't want to focus on the lip and all of that, but you can watch someone like Lee or others play and tell they aren't trying to make their corners tight and that their strength and endurance come from the correct coordination of Wind Power and Tongue Level. It's coordinating all the seven items that really makes it work.

When you are working through Physical Approach make sure you use other material. I would even say to not use Saint Jacome and substitute other etudes and flexibility material that fits where you are in your playing. Take a look at Daily Trumpet Routines and use that and work through it consistently and not too quickly. You are training habits, hopefully good ones!
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff_Purtle wrote:
On a related note I saw Chicago a couple nights ago and Lee Loughhane played so easy and he's 70! You don't want to focus on the lip and all of that, but you can watch someone like Lee or others play and tell they aren't trying to make their corners tight and that their strength and endurance come from the correct coordination of Wind Power and Tongue Level. It's coordinating all the seven items that really makes it work.


This past year my wife Anne and I were able to see the combined Earth, Wind & Fire / Chicago concert at the United Center. And courtesy of our (and Jeff's) friend Bobby Burns, Anne and I had backstage passes. Both Bob's and Lee's playing was just SO spot on. Clean, accurate and strong from the first to the last and from the lowest to the highest notes. Pretty strong testimonials to both the Claude Gordon and Bill Adam schools of development.

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Matt Graves
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff_Purtle wrote:

Quote:
When you are working through Physical Approach make sure you use other material. I would even say to not use Saint Jacome and substitute other etudes and flexibility material that fits where you are in your playing.


I suggest using the Clarke's Elementary Studies book in place of Saint Jacome and using my book, Fundamental Flexibility Studies, as the "flexibility material".
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solo soprano
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW,

For anyone who would still like to play out of the Grand Method here are some of Bill Knevitt's favorite exercises for flexibility and building endurance. The slower and softer you play the more endurance you will gain.

St. Jacome pages 19,24,49,68,81. (Practice ea. line in all 7 valve positions, both tongued & slurred) also pages 157-165...practice with all models.

and

page 195 play exercise 14 & 15 in 12 keys.
page 196 play exercise 16 with all models
page 197 play exercise 17 with all models
page 198 play exercise 18 with all models
page 199 play exercise 19 with all models
page 200 play exercise 20 with all models
page 201 play exercise 21 with all models
page 202 play exercise 22 with all models

Wondering if other students of Claude's were assigned these?
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tomb
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for all your replies. They're all really helpful.

Jeff_Purtle wrote:
....as opposed to others that think strength comes from developing muscle strength or the ability to stay tight or firm for a long time. When you experience it you know it's different.....


Having been focused on my chops for so long, I have now really decided to forget about the lips, how they're positioned and tightening everything up before even blowing. Now I'm just thinking about having the tongue in the right place and making sure I take a good relaxed breath and letting go of all that tension. It seems to be really changing my playing for the better.

Matt Graves wrote:
....I suggest using the Clarke's Elementary Studies book in place of Saint Jacome and using my book, Fundamental Flexibility Studies, as the "flexibility material"......


I am doing a few of your flex exercises now and Clarke's technical studies, mostly 1 & 2. I'll build on that as I feel comfortable. I like the Jacome material actually. The easy range and exercises seem to be opening up my sound and making me more comfortable as a whole on the horn. I'll keep doing them for the time being.

I'm also keen to have a look at your suggestions Solo Soprano.

Thanks again. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go on
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Matt Graves
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Saint Jacome exercises were definitiely assigned to me by Claude!

They are, of course, excellent, but not suited, necessarily, to the absolute beginner.

Happy Practicing!
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