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Leadpipe question



 
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comebackcornet
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject: Leadpipe question Reply with quote

So I have dabbled a little with playing the leadpipe recently (on my trumpet - not cornet) and I have a question.

When I shoot for the first fundamental pitch (without checking on the piano first) I find that often I produce a concert D. Actually, I seem to think that my concert D is at least as resonant as concert Eb - if not moreso. Is this a problem?

Thanks.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pitch at which the leadpipe resonates can vary depending upon its length (primarily), which also includes you and your mouthpiece, natch.

Years ago at an ITG conference when asked about the pitch, Mr. Adam responded "listen for the resonance, not the pitch" or words to that effect.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying leadpipe on my C trumpet for the first time in a long time and it occurred to me to consider the resonant frequency of the bell. After a few light pings with my finger I played the leadpipe and listened for the most resonant tone. There seems to be an effective resonant range of about a third with the lowest naturally resonant tone matching that of the bell. Below that sounds a little funky until I reach the same relative range an octave lower. The pitch I most naturally play is about a minor third above the pitch of the bell (or a major sixth below is probably more accurate...) with notes getting increasingly funky again until approximately the same range an octave above. Any thoughts on this observation?
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The resonance of the rest of the horn, including the bell, depends heavily upon the taper of the tubes, which is usually dominated by the bell flare. IOW it will vary depending upon the bell design, along with other things. I wouldn't read too much into it; there's a reason the exercise is a leadpipe exercise, taking the rest of the horn out of the picture.

Getting the most resonance and best sound at the proper pitch is always worthwhile, natch, when working the whole horn.

HTH - Don
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comebackcornet
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Bb trumpet is a standard Bach 37 - so I'm relatively confident the pitch should be concert Eb - plus the fact that the next two harmonics line up very well with top line F and High C.

Having said that, I think my issue is the concept of "resonant". That is not something that I can reliably measure - whereas pitch is.

Anyway, what I've settled on is to blow the pipe in such a way as the concert Eb comes out. I try not to make any difference in the face, just in the blow which seems to me to be the whole point of the exercise anyway. I think what this has done/is doing for me is slightly altering the way I blow and I am now blowing "higher" into the pitch. This has resulted in me pulling my tuning slide out a bit (which I think is good, it was in almost all the way) and I think my sound is a little more lively. (see Pandolfi interview).

So I will continue in this direction for a bit, hopefully it will be beneficial.
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

comebackcornet wrote:


Having said that, I think my issue is the concept of "resonant". That is not something that I can reliably measure - whereas pitch is.


Anyone who has never blown the leadpipe along with an advanced Adam student is at a disadvantage trying to do it. One purpose of the exercise is to first 'wake our ears up' to overtones in our sound, and then to train our ears to hear them more reliably. Having strong, stable harmonics rolling out the bell effortlessly no matter what we play is the hallmark of all great playing, no matter the school of instruction.

So you want to utilize the pitch of your pipe to help recognize more and stronger harmonics in your sound. This is a developmental process! One advantage of a teacher competent in such things is it can speed up that process, greatly; at least in terms of ear training. I am privileged to have briefly studied under Bobby Burns Jr., and to have also played the routine with him many times after I could no longer take lessons from him for course credit. (He's been the lone trumpet player for EWF for many years now) It was impossible to miss the overtones in his sound, no matter where the tuning slide was. The horrible little piano in those practice rooms would ring like crazy! The amount of sound the two of us produced in there was enough to drive anyone a little crazy, lol

So keep at it! When you're happy with the way you played your pipe and stick your tuning slide back in to find more effortless power than you remembered, you're probably heading in the right direction ...
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should attend one of these.

http://www.shelllakeartscenter.org/trumpet-workshop-with-robert-baca

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRmguba1FVU&feature=share
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
You should attend one of these.

http://www.shelllakeartscenter.org/trumpet-workshop-with-robert-baca

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRmguba1FVU&feature=share



Do you know of anything similar on the West Coast? I know John Harbaugh teaches here in Washington state but as far as these retreats are concerned, I haven't heard of anything similar.
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Bach 37/25
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Burbank Trumpet A/Bb Piccolo
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comebackcornet
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
You should attend one of these.

http://www.shelllakeartscenter.org/trumpet-workshop-with-robert-baca

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRmguba1FVU&feature=share


That's a great suggestion, however I don't think cancelling the family vacation already planned would work out too well ...
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PH
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
Billy B wrote:
You should attend one of these.

http://www.shelllakeartscenter.org/trumpet-workshop-with-robert-baca

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRmguba1FVU&feature=share



Do you know of anything similar on the West Coast? I know John Harbaugh teaches here in Washington state but as far as these retreats are concerned, I haven't heard of anything similar.


I don't know of anything like that on the west coast. However, Harbaugh is great if you want to head over the pass to Ellensburg for a lesson. Dan Keberle (in spokane) and Jared Hall (in Seattle) know their stuff, too. But Harbaugh is one of the most authoritative.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had my first lesson with Jared Hall today. It was great! Thanks for the suggestions. I'll bug Harbaugh at some point because I've heard a lot of good things. Thanks again.
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Bach 37/25
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F. Besson/Kanstul MEHA C
Burbank Trumpet A/Bb Piccolo
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punctualpete
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Harbaugh does a trumpet fest every November at CWU in Ellensburg. One day, some clinics, master classes, student performances, and everyone gets to play a couple mass trumpet choir pieces at the end of the day.
While I was studying with Harbaugh there the guest artists included Karl Sievers, Pat Harbison, Bobby Burns, and Charley Davis.
I always had a great time, learned something, and it's humbling too.

Here's he website if anyone is interested in checking it out.

http://www.cwu.edu/music/trumpet-festival
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome! Thanks!
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