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ibagoalie
New Member
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks all for the advice. I ordered a Wick 4 and 4B and tried both over the course of a couple days. The 4 gave a nice dark sound, but I found it to be too tiring, so until I develop a lot of endurance I opted for the 4B. It's a little brighter than I want, but still sound warm and is comfy (beats the mouthpiece that came with the cornet). As I get better, I'll probably revisit mouthpieces. |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1469
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| ibagoalie wrote: | | Thanks all for the advice. I ordered a Wick 4 and 4B and tried both over the course of a couple days. The 4 gave a nice dark sound, but I found it to be too tiring, so until I develop a lot of endurance I opted for the 4B. It's a little brighter than I want, but still sound warm and is comfy (beats the mouthpiece that came with the cornet). As I get better, I'll probably revisit mouthpieces. |
Here I am again  stubbornly recommending you to test a Heritage!
Guy second next to me in the solocornet section plays a Heritage and he has the most beautiful sound, round, singing, soft, core, yet with a bite. Even I get a nice sound on that one - but I prefer the Ultra.
Didn´t take you long to realize DW4 is unplayable in the long run.....admittedly the 4B is more comfy but but. "Nice work if you can get it" but what´s the point if you have to practise like a madman in order to be able to endure, have a nice full high register? Try blowing some Wagner stuff......or the (UK) brass band classic The Dam Busters....ouch!
But even if all men are equal our lips are not! Cheerio! And good luck!
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
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Dale Proctor
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9364
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: |
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I used to have a Wick 4B Heritage and wasn't impressed with it. It didn't seem to be an improvement over the regular 4B. I ended up selling it, but your mileage may vary.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| ibagoalie wrote: | | Thanks all for the advice. I ordered a Wick 4 and 4B and tried both over the course of a couple days. The 4 gave a nice dark sound, but I found it to be too tiring, so until I develop a lot of endurance I opted for the 4B. It's a little brighter than I want, but still sound warm and is comfy (beats the mouthpiece that came with the cornet). As I get better, I'll probably revisit mouthpieces. |
Hi ibagoalie
You are very welcome. I am glad that the Wick 4B is working well for you.
Take Care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Mark Bradley
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Posts: 1149
Location: Kansas City
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:56 am Post subject: |
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It may sound crazy but I've found the plastic (Lexan) Kelly 4B to be a very good cornet mouthpiece. Your results may vary but in a direct comparison I did with the brass Wick 4B and the Kelly the plastic was clearly superior.
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Bflatman
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard III wrote: | | Quote: | | Or it uses an american long cornet with a deep vee mouthpiece and huge bore and delivers rich tones with slightly brighter upper register more seen in trad jazz |
Really? I keep trying to find the ultimate sound for that music. I have two Conn 80A's and they are not quite it. Suggestions? |
I was suggesting that sound tonality changes hugely depending on mouthpiece to illustrate that deciding the sound concept with as much precision as possible is a wise thing to do.
This excerpt is my experience of using an ancient bennett and bennett deep vee that I acquired with an 1893 cornet when on my 80a. I dont know what the modern equivalent of this piece would be so I dont know how you could replicate it.
Also my 80a is a 1964 example which is supposed to have a different tonality to earlier 80a's like yours. And then tone is partly down to the player as well.
So I really dont know how my experience could help you given all the variables. |
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Richard III
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This excerpt is my experience of using an ancient bennett and bennett deep vee that I acquired with an 1893 cornet when on my 80a. I dont know what the modern equivalent of this piece would be so I dont know how you could replicate it. |
I've had every deep mouthpiece in an 80A that you can think of from Wicks to a Curry FLD flugel mouthpiece with a Conn cornet shank. Can't get much more deep V than that. Mark said when he made it that it was the deepest cornet mouthpiece he'd ever seen. The period Conn pieces from early 1900's are quite deep too. It is all a balance of sound and playability.
So now I'm playing a Conn 77A cornet with a Conn 4 mouthpiece. The cornet is a small bore and the mouthpiece has a 25 throat according to Conn Loyalist. I keep going back to it since I got it as there is something special about the sound.
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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sparxII
Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2002
Posts: 216
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:09 am Post subject: BB cornet mo. |
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you go wrong with :
Sparx 2,3 or 4
cheers,Ted
sparxmusic.com |
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Happy Canuck
Veteran Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 366
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:12 am Post subject: |
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I think Ted means "You Can't go wrong with a Sparx mp"
And I Agree!
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Bill
Olds trumpets/GR Butcher 65.6M
Olds cornets/Sparx 4B
Olds Flugelhorn/GR leadpipe/GR Butcher 65.6FL |
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fairvis
New Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2018
Posts: 1
Location: Cleveland, OH
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| I struggled with this as well when I moved to the UK. I was using a Bach 1C with a Conn 34A. I experimented with different things, Wick 4Bs, Getzen 4Bs, to no avail. I then switched to a Sovereign cornet and used a Wick 2 for a while (fat lips = need for wide cups). The Wick 2 made front row parts rather difficult (but man, I got a great bottom G!). That's when I consulted with some people and went to a Yamaha 16E after trying it out. It was a revelation - very little splitting, top range not compromised, still had the bottom when needed. For playing rep, where you may have a bottom G in one piece and a top C above the stave in the next, I felt it the perfect all-around. Worked great with the Sovereign and the Conn too. |
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TKSop
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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So actually playing a bit of Bb for a few weeks (long story) and had to find something that'd give me the right sound, the flexibility and the clarity required for a tough, modern test-piece (triumph of time)...
Restricted a little bit in that I prefer fairly small ID stuff wherever possible.
What I had on hand to choose between:
- my older Wick 3, which sounds great but the ID is bigger than I wanted.
- two different McCann pieces - sound great but just a bit big.
- my old Wick 4, sounds great but again feels a bit big.
- IPBrass (Ian Porthouse model) - great sound, comfortable, smidge big ID and bit too much work.
- GR 64#8 - feels good, great response but just too present/bright in the loud stuff, moreso than I remember the #7 being?
Ended up using an old Wick 5 - it sounds great, it does everything I need it to and I'm getting to the end of rehearsals with some left in the tank...
I guess it all really depends what sound you need for the band you're playing with and what works for you. |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| TKSop wrote: | So actually playing a bit of Bb for a few weeks (long story) and had to find something that'd give me the right sound, the flexibility and the clarity required for a tough, modern test-piece (triumph of time)...
Restricted a little bit in that I prefer fairly small ID stuff wherever possible.
What I had on hand to choose between:
- my older Wick 3, which sounds great but the ID is bigger than I wanted.
- two different McCann pieces - sound great but just a bit big.
- my old Wick 4, sounds great but again feels a bit big.
- IPBrass (Ian Porthouse model) - great sound, comfortable, smidge big ID and bit too much work.
- GR 64#8 - feels good, great response but just too present/bright in the loud stuff, moreso than I remember the #7 being?
Ended up using an old Wick 5 - it sounds great, it does everything I need it to and I'm getting to the end of rehearsals with some left in the tank...
I guess it all really depends what sound you need for the band you're playing with and what works for you. |
Hi TKSop
Goes to show how different we all are. I've found that I cannot play mouthpieces around 16mm or smaller for anymore than 30mins, before the cup diameter becomes unuseablly small.
Comparing the Denis Wick 3 and 4, I find the Denis Wick 3 more flexible, and I can more easily articulate on the Denis Wick 3. Regarding the Denis Wick 5 articulations start off even more difficult than the Denis Wick 4, and I feel that my embouchure is being clamped by the small diameter. As I continue playing, presumably owing to natural lip swelling, producing notes becomes increasingly difficult to the point that I can hardly produce a note at all.
It must be the cup diameter, as this issue is present to a minor effect with articulations being harder on the Denis Wick 4 than Denis Wick 3. I've however found that I get on better with larger mouthpieces anyhow, with my regular rim being a 3C variant which owing to a UK mouthpiece tech, is larger than some 1 1/2Cs.
I'm however glad to hear that the Denis Wick 5 is working out for you.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| fairvis wrote: | | I struggled with this as well when I moved to the UK. I was using a Bach 1C with a Conn 34A. I experimented with different things, Wick 4Bs, Getzen 4Bs, to no avail. I then switched to a Sovereign cornet and used a Wick 2 for a while (fat lips = need for wide cups). The Wick 2 made front row parts rather difficult (but man, I got a great bottom G!). That's when I consulted with some people and went to a Yamaha 16E after trying it out. It was a revelation - very little splitting, top range not compromised, still had the bottom when needed. For playing rep, where you may have a bottom G in one piece and a top C above the stave in the next, I felt it the perfect all-around. Worked great with the Sovereign and the Conn too. |
Hi fairvis
Yes, I agree. The Yamaha 16E is a very nice mouthpiece.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Grits Burgh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 805
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | louise posted:
Yes, I agree. The Yamaha 16E is a very nice mouthpiece. |
In terms of the feel of the diameter, can you describe the difference between the DW3, the Curry 3 and the Yamaha 16, perhaps rank from the largest diameter to the smallest.
Much obliged.
Warm regards,
Grits
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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GordonH
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 2893
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: |
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This my measurements of two of these:
Wick 3 26.84 16.64
Curry 3 27.38 16.65
The Curry rim is a bit thicker and a bit more rounded than the Wick
For comparison another cornet mouthpieces I have measured that is in that range:
Alliance RM3 26.71 16.64
I have not seen a Yamaha 16E for a while but the last one I saw had quite a wide flat rim.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Grits Burgh wrote: | | Quote: | louise posted:
Yes, I agree. The Yamaha 16E is a very nice mouthpiece. |
In terms of the feel of the diameter, can you describe the difference between the DW3, the Curry 3 and the Yamaha 16, perhaps rank from the largest diameter to the smallest.
Much obliged.
Warm regards,
Grits |
Hi Grits
It is slightly difficult, as they all have very different rim contours. The 16E for example has a pretty narrow rim, which may make it feel bigger than it is. I always feel that the DW3 cup diameter feels bigger than the quoted cup diameter of 16.75mm.
I'd say that the 16E is the largest with the DW3 and Curry 3 being similar, with the DW3 maybe being a touch larger.
I hope that this will help.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| GordonH wrote: |
I have not seen a Yamaha 16E for a while but the last one I saw had quite a wide flat rim. |
Hi GordonH
Although flat, I would say that my 16E has a narrow rim
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Grits Burgh
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 805
Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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GordonH, Louise,
Much obliged.
Grits
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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Rapier232
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 1323
Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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I’m with TKsop, I like smaller. On cornet I use a DW5 or Warburton 5s if on front row. DW4b if helping on back row.
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"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".
Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
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JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Grits Burgh wrote: | GordonH, Louise,
Much obliged.
Grits |
Hi Grits
You are very welcome
Best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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