Nice work if you can get it....?

[Seymor B Fudd]

Having written about my ongoing lead mouthpiece safari, stopping at oasises named Jettone, "Brand Lead", I reconsidered an old Schilke 11A.
Provided me with better tonal qualities, seemingly better&more distinct core.
So we played at a bigger party the other night, 33 songs in all; in a row since people occupied the dance floor on a continual basis.
And what happened? My lips finally went down the drain.. barely made it to the end
I have practised a lot, 2 hours liptime most days, ample high register training feeling quite well, although I seemed to "overblow" last rehearsal making lips somewhat sore day after, hampering me a bit in the next bandrehearsal.
Having recovered from a combination of bad habits and overuse syndrom I am somewhat keen on not going in that direction again.
This 11A is not as shallow as the Jettone, or the Brand. Better sound though but the best notes are those that get played. Or?
These shallow pieces are more forgiving to my poor old chops.
So now I am bewildered - practise even more or take the easy road??
Someone out there recognizing this??
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)

[Craig Swartz]

Do you consider using a lead mouthpiece to play lead "taking the easy road"?

[Benge.nut]

Nothing wrong with using a Jettone. Or any other commercial style mouthpiece, designed to make playing easier and endurance last longer.

I don't consider using a commercial piece taking the easy road, I think it's just using the right tool for the right job. That's why they were designed!!

Over the years I've experimented with playing on all sorts of mouthpieces. Deep, shallow, wide, narrow, bowl shape, v cup, tight throats open throats, tight backbores and open backbores.

No matter what I play on, after the honeymoon period and getting used to the piece, my sound always sounds like me. I seem to always adjust and whatever new sound of feel comes with a new piece disappears and I go back to sounding like I always sound.

To make things easier, and maybe I'm taking the easy road, but I've become comfortable on shallower cups and use them all the time. Specifically for reasons like you mentioned: to have longer, stronger endurance, to not fall into the bad habit of overblowing and more accuracy and control through all registers

[Seymor B Fudd]

[Benge.nut]

Sidenote** I never though Schilke A cups were all that shallow.

The tight A backbores give a nice commercial sound, but the C backbore an 11A for instance I don't think has a sound that really has much edge.

[Ed Kennedy]

The Schilke 11A is designed to be a pic piece. It has the rather large Schilke C backbore. Each of the A cup pieces is different: The 14A4a is base on the Purviance 4*K4, employing a special tighter A backbore and was designed for Forrest Buchtell Jr., the 13A4a is based on the Reeves 42SV (2SV at the time) and was made for Mike Vax, The 6A4a was designed for Bill Chase, who played a Jettone previously.

PS I operated the Schilke mouthpiece lathe for a time in 1973

[Brad361]

There are no absolutes, but a "lead mouthpiece" won't enable you to do what you're not (at least not yet) capable of. I use one for what I do because while I do think it helps my endurance somewhat, it also helps me get the tone I want and need to cut through the amps of the band I work with without having to overblow. Ok, overblowing LESS; I'm still guilty of it sometimes.

Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval

[Seymor B Fudd]

[furcifer]

Ah the great lead piece hunt. I know it well. Abyssus abyssum invocat.

Yes, it helps to practice on the piece you play the most and/or most physically-demanding stuff on, in terms of extending your endurance.

Yes, it helps *me* to play a piece that does NOT have a sharp inner rim edge. Due to that, I can play a piece that *feels* wider, but "specs" narrower on a comparison chart.

I also don't find that the Schilke 13A4a or 14A4a cups are all that shallow in the grand scheme of lead/commercial mouthpieces, but I'm not a huge fan of the sharper-edge inner rims. Some might consider them rather rounded; I do not - especially the 13A4a which has more of a flat rim anyway, so the sharp inner edge is even more pronounced. Now, while I could get the sound I wanted on either one without having to overblow - which is even more critical to optimizing endurance than the inner rim edge - I felt I could still do a little better...

So I now play a Marcinkiewicz E14 Bobby Shew #1. The rim edge is rounder and the cup depth is shallower. It's even easier to get the sound I want, which, again, is crucial to hanging up those big notes at the end of the gig.

Every other mouthpiece I play on is for a different sound for the kind of playing that is nowhere near as taxing as lead work, so I don't worry about "practicing" to stay in general physical shape on them. I only practice on them when the mood strikes or when I have something specific to perform.

Getting the lead sound I want without having to work so hard actually optimizes endurance via the inspiration I get from it, as well as just being easier. So, I guess you could say I go for sound first (via cup, backbore combo), and then start dialing in the rim shape.
_________________
Stomvi S3 Big Bell -2018
Bach 180ST37 -'80
Benge CG -'78
Buescher LP 9 -1926
Getzen 896S-4 flugel -'86
Conn 18H bone -'64
Getzen M2003E Bb/G bugle
Getzen Titleist 2v soprano G -'79
King K-50 G mellophone
Henri Gautier Cornet C/Bb/A -1919

[Craig Swartz]

Why don't you figure out which Reeves mac would fit your rim surface/bite needs and use the most shallow backbone/underpart for your lead playing? I've finally downsized from the Schilke 19 I used for nearly 40 years to a Schilke 15 for the orchestral work and also use a Reeves 42M692 for the commercial. I have a line on a 42SV692 I may try but the standard 42M692 gives me the presence and extra zing I like for playing lead in the summer big band gigs.

[Benge.nut]

Just play the Jettone!! They work and have worked for countless players for decades!

Jettone has a unwarranted, bad reputation I never understood. They feel great, have a commercial sound, and help with endurance. The blanks look weird, comparatively, but so what?

Lots of reissues out there by lots of mouthpiece makers. The rims feel great and the unusual cup shape is a successful design. If you have one of the originals that works, I say stick with it.

[Robert P]

If you can't play a 6 hour gig on a Bach .5 A you're a wuss.



Ever tried a Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead? I played a Jet-Tone T1A for years, I find the Yamaha to be far superior.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel

[Seymor B Fudd]

[Seymor B Fudd]

Quoting myself so here I am again: Last night, at a hard rehearsal, I went back to my previous pieces, the Jettone and the "Lead". Finding that all of a sudden I had a hard time hitting certain partials; as if my ability to "find" a common (high) B, C# etc. had dwindled. The aforementioned S 11A did not give me problems at all in this area - on the contrary I found it very easy to "pinpoint" whatever note.
I´m the common denominator so maybe the Lead etc. discloses a weakness in my blowing - or - could it be that these pieces are more difficult in these respects? Your opinions please!
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)

[Benge.nut]

Switching back and forth between different pieces, especially changing rim sizes, will inevitably cause inconsistency, in my experience.

[TKSop]

[Seymor B Fudd]

[TKSop]

[tpter1]

There is no easy road, first of all.

Secondly, using a fly fishing rod to catch a shark probably won't work out very well. It's not cheating or taking the easy way out to use the right tool for the job.

I'd rather suggest your loss of endurance might be to over practicing high register. Many pros will balance out their practice so that if they have heavy, loud, high stuff they'll invest equal amounts of lighter, softer or lower stuff. Overblowing is another cause of rapid decline.

Stick with the Schilke for a couple more weeks. Are you bottoming out on the mouthpiece? Is it too shallow? Can you get good response in the low end of the horn as well?
_________________
-Glenn Roberts
"Character is the backbone of human culture, and music is the flowering of human character". -Confucious

[Louise Finch]