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comebackcornet
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon,

Thanks for the reply. Now I know who you are, I watched your video(s) many months ago when I started getting serious about my practice. I found them to be extremely well done and informative. Thanks for that!

I understand now, I guess I missed it in your earlier response. While I like the advice, I don't feel I am ready to try to push my range every day (in fact I know I cannot handle that yet - I already had one setback for being stupid ...). In fact, I am continually trying to back off a little, simplify, and let my chops recover without the constant beatings!
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comebackcornet
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ljazztrm wrote:

I don’t know if I quite agree with you there comebackcornet about Colin. Just because it goes a little higher, doesn’t mean it’s more difficult. It’s kind of laid out in an easier way to play than either Bai Lin or Irons, IMO.


I have not seen it before, but good to know.

ljazztrm wrote:

Also comeback, I notice you don’t tackle group 22.


Well I have only been playing Irons for a little over 2 months now, and have been working my way gradually, trying not to overdo. I have done 22 a couple of times. This is at the end of my day, and if things are going well I can softly venture up to the E, but not always. I can pretty much get to the D on any day.
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kevin_soda
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're going off on a tangent about how awesome Jon's videos are, I will gladly join you!

He's always so honest and accessible. He's never condescending or arrogant. He approaches topics very thoughtfully with real world practicality but never too much to absorb at one time. Can't say enough good things about Rufflicks' RuffTips!
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ljazztrm
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Joined: 03 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well I have only been playing Irons for a little over 2 months now, and have been working my way gradually, trying not to overdo. I have done 22 a couple of times. This is at the end of my day, and if things are going well I can softly venture up to the E, but not always. I can pretty much get to the D on any day.


Yeah man, it sounds like you are really on the right track with all of this Comeback. With the last couple on 'group 22', you could even take a 5-10min break and come back to them and give them another shot. The key is to not do it when you start feeling a tired feeling in the chops - a lot of it is a 'mindset' attitude. Just thinking of training the tongue and air to learn to coordinate efficiently, which takes more and more burden off the chops.

And, of course, practicing the preceding Irons exercises, like you're already doing, are also designed to make groups 21 and 22 easier and easier. All the very best, Lex
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys made me feel lazy so yesterday I expanded and did 5-9. It took me 45 minutes including breaks but I didn't beat myself up. I think I'll continue to limit it to five groups though because there's just so much more to do than lip slurs...
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rufflicks
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Joined: 14 Mar 2011
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Location: Mesa AZ

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill,

Here is my approach to the Irons in full: I played through the Irons today #5-#27 and it took 80 minutes including a 5-minute interruption/rest after #25. I take the horn off my chops as I feel I need and rest momentarily between each exercise. I never rush this book. I play #5 and #6 very slow exhausting my air by the end of each. I play #7 very deliberately around 120 BPM. On the last line of #7 I play open then 2nd and continue to the bottom then reverse direction and go back up to C in the staff. On #8 - #13 I play more repeats that 2xs on all lines as the author describes. I try to play deliberate and clean this focus determines my tempo. As my mom used to say, “you want to get the good juices out of each exercise”. On #13 I reverse direction at the bottom (123) and go back to the open position 1st bar and then change direction and continue back down to the ending. #15 I play as written with forte attack and then decrescendo. I do not play to the point of exhausting all my air on each note. I have covered this ground in #5, #6. Instead I concentrate on air control during the decrescendo focusing on sound and pitch as a guide for correct air control. On both #15 and #16 I take the horn off my chops between each note. #16 I play as written, again with concentration on the crescendo decrescendo keeping pitch and tone guiding air control.

#17-#19 play each line several times, tempo now has increased. I conceptualize these in groups of 4 notes or by the bar and emphasize down beats. I start to think in terms of velocity to help focus air and stay relaxed. On #20 I play each key as a separate exercise. In Eb Major I play at 50BPM in cut time. I pop the top note as prescribed. I think in cut time as a way to conceptualize forward momentum so not to feel bogged down or play with an overly heavy approach. I stop at each key change and readjust my concept. In F Major I increase speed to 120BPM in 4/4. I separate the notes but I do not play the quarter notes staccato. On C major I slow down to 90BPM in 4/4. I play the notes connected and accent the bottom note. I take a breath separating each bar. This forces me to reset properly or I will not make the octave intervals. I don’t often reset as I play in the upper register so I use this opportunity as a way to practice this approach. I end #20 by repeating the last bar up an octave.

#21, #22 and #23 I play repeats many times and I think top and bottom accents. I am now playing these more like a velocity study with a smooth approach. #21 is in 1 at 62BPM. #22 is in 4/4 at 92BPM and #23 is at 96BPM in 4/4. I do not hold the low note at the end very long and I sweep up to the last note very quickly as prescribed by the author as a xylophone mallet like sweep across the bars. #24 is pure velocity with no tempo and the sweeping approach from long note to long note or as I think of them anchor note to anchor note. #25 is top and bottom with a sweep up and down. Velocity defined. #26 is simply the test at the end. I play it at 76BPM in cut time. I breathe every 3 bars as I ascend and play at MF. On the descending second half, concentration on relaxing will help. Breathing every 4 bars on this section will also help reduce fatigue. #27 is a chromatic study that can be replaced by other chromatic studies. I do not always add it to my session as I do other chromatic studies of greater length as a range drill. If I do play #27 I play at 82-86 BPM in one.

Long yes, but you asked so…

Best, Jon
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Last edited by rufflicks on Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rufflicks
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Joined: 14 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Kevin,

You humble me sir. Thank you for the kind words.

I just hope my ramblings help even just one person figure out an aspect of taming the beast.

Oh, I have no room/leg to stand on to be arrogant or condescending. I honestly hope I can save some from the mistakes I have made and help them find a better path than mine. All of this is about the evolution of playing and making it better for future generations.

Best, Jon
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LakeTahoeTrpt
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Joined: 14 Aug 2012
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Location: Portland Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ljazztrm wrote:
Speaking of taking credit for high notes.. One of my favorites.. Check out around 2:50 - "Hey cats, did you all hear that..double C!" Hahaha!! Love it!


Lex, for what it's worth, I had the pleasure of studying for six years with the same guy that Freddie got his only legit lessons from, Max Woodbury. For some reason, everyone knows Freddie's name, but not mine...that's a different story.

Anyway, Max had a lip slur exercise that I did every day for years, and would probably still do it if I had the energy or something to practice for:

Starting with F# below the staff, slur up one partial and back down (F#-C#-F#). Next, do the same thing starting on G below the staff (G-D-G). Continue going up chromatically to G-C-G on the staff. Rest. Then start again at low F# and slur up two partials and back down (F#-C#-F#-C#-F#), and do that chromatically up to G on the staff and down (G-C-E-C-G). Rest. Then start again and add one partial each time until, in the last set, you are starting at low F# and slurring to C#-F#-A#-C#-F# (top note) and back down C#-A#-F#-C#-F#, and moving chromatically up to C-G-C-E-G-C (top note) and back down G-E-C-G-C. From the top note of each of the last set, the partials are, of course, close enough together that you can then go up the scale as far as you feel comfortable doing, e.g., C-G-C-E-G-C-D-E-F (top note) and back down E-D-C-G-E-C-G-C.

Re-reading that makes it seem incredibly nerdy...and I am sure that Freddie would have gotten his double C no matter what, but that exercise is as good a foundation for chop strengthening as any out there, and I didn't even have to pay for a book!
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey LTahoe, thanks very much for sharing that man. You know, it looks very similar to Joey Tartell's exercise too. Maybe he also studied with Max Woodbury? http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1476681&highlight=#1476681

I've heard from several players that Freddie also had a long tone exercise that he would do for 1 hour every day. I believe it encompassed the range from Low F# to G below high C. I haven't been able to find out exactly how he approached it. All the very best, Lex
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joey Tartell recommends a similar method but with a middle-out approach.
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