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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:53 pm Post subject: Articulation on the leadpipe... |
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In my exploration, I've tried to incorporate double and triple tonguing into my leadpipe warmup after I do a few longtones. It sounded reasonable at the time I thought of it but I soon found it to be incredibly challenging to achieve the same resonance as when I single tongue. My K syllable sounds considerably more dull. Does anyone have experience with this issue? _________________ Kevin |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I won't say that he never did it. But, I will say that WITH ME Mr. Adam never did any type of articulation on the leadpipe. He had me do long notes. Period.
Also, I think people make much too big of a deal about the role of blowing leadpipe in Adam's pedagogy. Most of his first generation students never played the leadpipe during their primary years of study. The first stretch of time I studied with him (early to mid 1970s) he didn't have anyone play the pipe. When I came back to study with him for my second extended period (beginning in 1982) he did have most everyone starting the day on the leadpipe. However, it was never a big thing. We would play leadpipe long tones (rest as much as you play) for 2 or 3 minutes at most. Then we would start playing the trumpet. Many students never played any note other than the fundamental concert Eb. A limited number of advanced students would play a one or two of the higher partials a few times, but most people did not. He would vary it for each person, however. Sometimes it was a breath attack. Sometimes it was a legato attack. Sometimes it was a very firm attack. He would model different timbres according to what each player needed...even on the leadpipe. Different people played different volumes. Some people held the leadpipe notes out quite a long time. For other people the long tones were not very long at all.
It was never one size fits all, even though most of us played many of the same exercises, we played then in very different customized ways. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm not going crazy with it, just a couple minutes but my question came about because I usually follow a brief leadpipe warmup with some brief articulation on middle G just to check in. Attack varies based on the needs of the day but I'm usually legato tonguing 16th notes around 100bpm. Again, nothing crazy, just checking in. If there's no perceived benefit to articulating after long tones but before I put the slide back, I'll just proceed as I have done. _________________ Kevin |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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kevin_soda wrote: | Yeah, I'm not going crazy with it, just a couple minutes but my question came about because I usually follow a brief leadpipe warmup with some brief articulation on middle G just to check in. Attack varies based on the needs of the day but I'm usually legato tonguing 16th notes around 100bpm. Again, nothing crazy, just checking in. If there's no perceived benefit to articulating after long tones but before I put the slide back, I'll just proceed as I have done. |
Generally, I wouldn't get a lot going on with articulation until the sound, airflow, etc. has settled in. My daily routine is set up in such a way that I don't do much with pronunciation until I've played 45 minutes or more of long tones, slurred chromatics, flow type studies, slurred scales, etc. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:48 am Post subject: |
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Leave the tongue relaxed in the bottom of the mouth like "melted butter". _________________ Bill Bergren |
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tpter1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 1194
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: |
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PH wrote: | I won't say that he never did it. But, I will say that WITH ME Mr. Adam never did any type of articulation on the leadpipe. He had me do long notes. Period.
Also, I think people make much too big of a deal about the role of blowing leadpipe in Adam's pedagogy. Most of his first generation students never played the leadpipe during their primary years of study. The first stretch of time I studied with him (early to mid 1970s) he didn't have anyone play the pipe. When I came back to study with him for my second extended period (beginning in 1982) he did have most everyone starting the day on the leadpipe. However, it was never a big thing. We would play leadpipe long tones (rest as much as you play) for 2 or 3 minutes at most. Then we would start playing the trumpet. Many students never played any note other than the fundamental concert Eb. A limited number of advanced students would play a one or two of the higher partials a few times, but most people did not. He would vary it for each person, however. Sometimes it was a breath attack. Sometimes it was a legato attack. Sometimes it was a very firm attack. He would model different timbres according to what each player needed...even on the leadpipe. Different people played different volumes. Some people held the leadpipe notes out quite a long time. For other people the long tones were not very long at all.
It was never one size fits all, even though most of us played many of the same exercises, we played then in very different customized ways. |
This makes me think of that Thomas Stevens video that was posted several weeks ago where he talks about Schlossberg's approach as "first do no harm": where he leaves alone what the student CAN do and focuses instead on what they CAN"T. Is there a correlation or am I reading more into it than exists? _________________ -Glenn Roberts
"Character is the backbone of human culture, and music is the flowering of human character". -Confucious |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5860 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I think there is always the need to start from the place of comfort and push gently outward from there. Always retaining inner quiet, the beautiful sound, the feeling of focus and flow. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Sometimes it is necessary to go to where the student is and lead them out of the dark. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Derek Reaban Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2003 Posts: 4221 Location: Tempe, Arizona
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Kevin,
I wrote about this very issue of K tongue on the leadpipe many years ago in this post. Maybe my description will help you to move the dull K sound to a more vibrant K sound using the leadpipe. Good luck! _________________ Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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PH wrote: | Sometimes it was a breath attack. Sometimes it was a legato attack. Sometimes it was a very firm attack. |
I talked to a friend who did his undergrad with John Harbaugh at Central Washington and he said the same thing. "Breath attack. Focus on easy, relaxed breath. Don't get distracted by other things." He did say my issue was symptomatic of some kind of inefficiency but that, if I keep following the sound, I'll find it.
I do like how naked the attack is on the pipe but I can understand how it may not necessarily be relevant. I guess I just get curious and think about this stuff when I could just keep practicing. I've been more conscious of my "pronunciation" lately and I like learning about Mr. Adam's approach. _________________ Kevin |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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kevin_soda wrote: |
I talked to a friend who did his undergrad with John Harbaugh |
HA! I studied with him, back in '84. Brings back memories |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Derek Reaban wrote: | Kevin,
I wrote about this very issue of K tongue on the leadpipe many years ago in this post. Maybe my description will help you to move the dull K sound to a more vibrant K sound using the leadpipe. Good luck! |
No. To my knowledge Adam never had his students do this. We never separated multiple tonguing. It is one motion. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I can understand how it could be valuable to isolate the k but I also understand that it doesn't fit the Adam approach. I like the idea of the multisyllabic pronunciation. Thanks for clarifying. _________________ Kevin |
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