Excessive upper lip and depth of protrusion in mouthpiece.

[Lionel]

Just my thoughts here and may not relate to even many people. Just putting it out there.

Early in my development I was introduced to the Maggio System. This is a pedal tone, syllable oriented book. May even be out of print. It did produce hybrids. As the Claude Gordon utilizes many similar ideas. That and Gordon once studied with Louis Maggio. I can't comment much on Gordon other than having skimmed through his material once long ago. But Maggio I know well. Is kind of the father of all pedal tone books.

Its a 2/3rds upper, 1/3rd lower lip setting. Pooch the chops outwards into the mouthpiece and buzz downwards.

Initially I got my first solid high notes this way. A desirable result. The most puckered out chops, esp my upper lip seemed to grasp the wall of the mouthpiece and gave my chops a "grip" very helpful at popping some impressive high notes. Since no one in my high school could hit high F's and G's I started drawing some notice. One of my teachers even hired me to be his informal "designated hitter" for all the high notes in his orchestra job.

In other words at only 16 I got to split the lead trumpet book with a local pro who while a much better player over all just didnt have anything above a high C. And barely that. It was an ego rush but tempered by my fears and awesome responsibiity.

Unfortunately however my 2/3rds upper lip placement didnt allow me to have a good fortissimo in the middle register. I had an A above high C that split ear drums but couldnt get a truly big sound below the staff. Not unless I set closer to 60/40 meaning 60% upper, 40% lower lip. In that position I had a fine middle and lower register but needed to re-set when ascending above high C.

I think that it was road life and playing long hours every night that solidified my chops. As gradually my lower register setting became more adept at playing above the staff. In other words I kept and developed the "60/40" setting. And at one point somewhere down the line I stopped pooching my upper ltime a high note showed up in the music. That and most bands at that time demanded more middle register volume than high note work anyway.

So the Maggio "pooched lips" embouchure was just a phase I went through. Perhaps it was necessary one or maybe I would have eventually learned the upper register on my regular chop setting anyway. I still remember the Maggio System pretty well though. At the time it seemed like the "second coming". Like none of the other kids could blow solid high notes. Not for miles around. Even with the inherent dysfunction of having to re-set my chops it was worth it.

Although in retrospect it did have some downside. Things I may still carry with me today. My trumpet playing associates with more limited range but equal length of experience seem to play more boldly in the middle register than I do. I think they tend to execute difficult middle register passages a little more securely than I do. I dont know for sure. Perhaps if you have more register you need more practice hours to coordinate them. Not so much in jazz or pop music but in classical where the refinement calls for pinpoint perfect accuracy.

But what is done is done. I cant go back and repeat my early development. I did have a text chat today with a noted exceptional pro on this very subject. He stating that the Maggio puckering was counter-productive to limitless range. And of course that's just his perspective. But he's got a well connected triple C, fat sound and seamless register changes.

And again so did Louis Maggio. I'm told so anyway. I know that Claude Gordon did too. Each a major pedal tone advocate. Today it seems that Arturo is the pedal tone monster guru. The stuff I've seen him do below the staff is even more amazing than his upper register. Somewhere there's a video of him and Wayne Bergeron. Both of them mostly chatting. Arturo takes out his horn and executes pedal tone phrases with the precision of a most capable Euphonium or valve Trombonist. It is like scary impressive. Wish I could paste the link.

"One man's meat is another man's poison".

If anything the differences between the way various artists approach high notes is totally amazing. I'm still on the fence regarding pedal tones. Kinda like the way I view myself doubling on trombone. Im not convinced they're beneficial to me or harmful.

In the meantime Im just gonna go practice my Clarkes. Bought a new metronome yesterday. Because my "internal metronome" has been screwing up a lot lately. Maybe its because I'm suddenly in a classical group which really relies upon the trumpets having a strong sense of time.

And most of my work has been in commercial/pop. Always having a good drummer and bass player with immaculate time. I hear my college trumpet professor harkening from his grave,

"Lionel!!! DONT RUSH"!! His baton tapping on my music stand. Loudly...

Another interesting phenomenon. As in the ten years I spent rehearsing and gigging in R & B bands I never once was told that I "pushed the tempo". Although at least twice someone said I was getting behind.

When you figure it all out? Let me know. I think some of it is metaphysical. A special talent some people have. Can not easily be taught.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).

[Slowblue]

I'm a long way off figuring it all out

That point about 2/3 1/3 position is interesting. I've tried, after reading Arban, to get my lip position to 1/2, 1/2 but my teeth and jaw are such that 2/3 top lip, 1/3 bottom is how I can play. Arban somewhere says that 1/3 top lip is preferable so you can apply the tension needed for high range.

I'm starting to suspect that while there's a load of good advice and theory out there, but players differ a great deal and you end up going with what works.

Many say you play play low and for a long time to build upper range, so I've been getting into Clarke, which seems to be doing some good. On the other hand I've found the Caruso exercises have pushed my range and confidence about notes above high C.

[EdMann]

I've been at Maggio/Stamp off and on for years, and frankly that's the problem: off and on. It's a system and when you step away to another, you run the risk of losing what you gained. That happened to me, until I discovered some of the Reinhardt concepts about placement, and then reapplied Stamp (which I prefer over Maggio) and then REALLY took away the mpc pressure. Lately the uppers have been coming out and frankly so has the rest of it.

I took a lesson with Arturo a few years back, and he is indeed a Maggio nut, and there's certainly no issue with him in the middle register, but he illuminated me about this sentence of yours:

"In the meantime Im just gonna go practice my Clarkes."

They serve two purposes, the Maggio warm up and the Clarkes, and IMO they're both necessary to development. It's when I switch to some other warm up or chop setting or fad of the week that I get in trouble.

ed