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A BETTER 3C?


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Hudson08
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Joined: 17 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been working in my Reeves 3C for a couple weeks now and am digging this piece more and more. I feel it's really geared for larger ensembles, with its big teutonic sound, but it makes my late 90's Bach 3C feel like a tin cup! The Reeves is more comfortable, way better intonation, secure slotting, and a more even blow low to high. I'm thinking about ordering a two piece so I can use Bob's 3 rim on my commercial pieces. Definitely worth checking out.
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jaysonr
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be sure to check out some pieces with the GR 3 rim. Contact Brian Scriver for more info on all of the cup options.
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: for me, for some things, the Yammy Shew Jazz just had too tight of a backbore to get a round tone. Then I started looking at the Kanstul comparator traces. As has been discussed in other threads, the 3C cup is shallower than the other C cups of other Bach mouthpieces. Moreover, the 3C cup is more like the D cup of other Bach mouthpieces, notably the 7D and the 10 1/2 D, differing in rim diameter, of course.

Also, we all also know that the standard Bach backbore for C cups is the #10, and for D cups the #76. I have a 7D that I like for some things, not for others, but I do like the feel of its "blow." Hmmm.... So I went on safari and found a custom 3C with a #76 backbore. As I played it, everything just became, well, easier and more efficient. I was able to "relax" into the horn better instead of fighting it as some points. To me, the #76 backbore not only seemed to coordinate with the 3C cup easier, but in tone and perceived "blow," it is between the #10 backbore and the Shew Jazz.

The only thing I did to the throat was what I do with all my mouthpieces: I took a small round rattail file and made sure the plating was smooth and the throat round. This usually increases the diameter by about a thou, but it works for me.

I would encourage everyone to try this combination, 3C/76, as for me it gave more focus and core to the tone without losing the versatility we all like in a 3C. I confirmed this with a friend of mine who has a newer 3C, played both mouthpieces back to back on the same horn and same pieces, and you could tell the same on his horn; and he had the same comments about how the "blow" felt. He is also considering getting one.

As for those who positively do not like a 3C, all I can say is to encourage to give it another look with the #76 backbore.

And as usual, especially seeing the thread is four pages long at this point, each individual's mileage will vary.
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add a comment in here that I am using a James R New S4MS on piccolo trumpet and the rim is practically indistinguishable from the Horntrader one I use on Bb. I believe both are slightly scaled down Arturo 3C's so they would have ended up in the same place. I bought the S4MS second hand and it was to my good fortune. Using it with a Warburton 8* cornet backbore. Might not suit everyone though as I prefer a deeper piccolo mouthpiece.
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GordonH wrote:
Just to add a comment in here that I am using a James R New S4MS on piccolo trumpet and the rim is practically indistinguishable from the Horntrader one I use on Bb. I believe both are slightly scaled down Arturo 3C's so they would have ended up in the same place. I bought the S4MS second hand and it was to my good fortune. Using it with a Warburton 8* cornet backbore. Might not suit everyone though as I prefer a deeper piccolo mouthpiece.


I can see how that cup would work well on picc (it does on sop cornet, too) - plenty of chop space at the top (which I prefer) but with a relatively tight throat entrance to add some high-register support without making tone too nasal, it's a brilliantly designed cup...
Perhaps "the" ideal slightly more supportive 3C?

Between the and the M cup, the whole 3c spectrum is covered really nicely, IMHO.
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
GordonH wrote:
Just to add a comment in here that I am using a James R New S4MS on piccolo trumpet and the rim is practically indistinguishable from the Horntrader one I use on Bb. I believe both are slightly scaled down Arturo 3C's so they would have ended up in the same place. I bought the S4MS second hand and it was to my good fortune. Using it with a Warburton 8* cornet backbore. Might not suit everyone though as I prefer a deeper piccolo mouthpiece.


I can see how that cup would work well on picc (it does on sop cornet, too) - plenty of chop space at the top (which I prefer) but with a relatively tight throat entrance to add some high-register support without making tone too nasal, it's a brilliantly designed cup...
Perhaps "the" ideal slightly more supportive 3C?

Between the and the M cup, the whole 3c spectrum is covered really nicely, IMHO.


It certainly does what I want it to do. First time I played it I was able to play a scale up to an A without feeling I was playing on a totally alien mouthpiece. That rim is actually very close to the Breslmair G, certainly compatible in terms of inner diameter and engagement although the G has less bite.
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iiipopes wrote:
Update: for me, for some things, the Yammy Shew Jazz just had too tight of a backbore to get a round tone. Then I started looking at the Kanstul comparator traces. As has been discussed in other threads, the 3C cup is shallower than the other C cups of other Bach mouthpieces. Moreover, the 3C cup is more like the D cup of other Bach mouthpieces, notably the 7D and the 10 1/2 D, differing in rim diameter, of course.

Also, we all also know that the standard Bach backbore for C cups is the #10, and for D cups the #76. I have a 7D that I like for some things, not for others, but I do like the feel of its "blow." Hmmm.... So I went on safari and found a custom 3C with a #76 backbore. As I played it, everything just became, well, easier and more efficient. I was able to "relax" into the horn better instead of fighting it as some points. To me, the #76 backbore not only seemed to coordinate with the 3C cup easier, but in tone and perceived "blow," it is between the #10 backbore and the Shew Jazz.

The only thing I did to the throat was what I do with all my mouthpieces: I took a small round rattail file and made sure the plating was smooth and the throat round. This usually increases the diameter by about a thou, but it works for me.

I would encourage everyone to try this combination, 3C/76, as for me it gave more focus and core to the tone without losing the versatility we all like in a 3C. I confirmed this with a friend of mine who has a newer 3C, played both mouthpieces back to back on the same horn and same pieces, and you could tell the same on his horn; and he had the same comments about how the "blow" felt. He is also considering getting one.

As for those who positively do not like a 3C, all I can say is to encourage to give it another look with the #76 backbore.

And as usual, especially seeing the thread is four pages long at this point, each individual's mileage will vary.


Hi iiipopes

Very interesting, thanks. As I'm sure that I've said previously, years ago when I had my previous Yamaha trumpet, a YTR-6335HGII, I experimented with the following Kanstul modular components, B3C top, B3D top, B10 backbore and B76 backbore.

My definite favourite is the 3C top/10 backbore combination, which I still use in the form of a Jim New copy of the cup end of my 2005 trumpet Bach 3C combined with his version of a Bach 10 backbore, sleeved with his 6.5 sleeve.

I didn't like the 3C top/76 combination at all, and found it too tight to blow, which goes to show that we are all different, since you are having such good results with it.

My preference for a slightly more commerical option was the 3D top/10 backbore combination. I still have a 3D top with my 3C rim which Jim New made me whilst he was still at Kanstul, but I haven't used it for years, as I am currently not doing any playing which requires anything more commercial than a 3C.

I can't remember how I found the 3D/76 combination. I presume that since I have used a B10 backbore on the rare occasions that I have used my 3D top, that I didn't like it as much as B10.

Take Care

Lou
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Locutus2k
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GordonH wrote:
Just to add a comment in here that I am using a James R New S4MS on piccolo trumpet and the rim is practically indistinguishable from the Horntrader one I use on Bb. .


I play on Horn Trader 3 and 3CS mouthpieces and have the Jim New S4MS too. To me the rim is slightly different. Very similar but i can tell is not the same. The Horn Trader rim feels flatter to me and with more support. The S4MS rim has a sharper bite (that i like) and is more "curved" on the outside. Internal size of the cup feels just the same.
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
I didn't like the 3C top/76 combination at all, and found it too tight to blow, which goes to show that we are all different, since you are having such good results with it.

Yes, we are all different. Thanks. I can say I know, then, you would not like the Yammy Shew Jazz, because it has an even tighter backbore than the Bach #76.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iiipopes wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
I didn't like the 3C top/76 combination at all, and found it too tight to blow, which goes to show that we are all different, since you are having such good results with it.

Yes, we are all different. Thanks. I can say I know, then, you would not like the Yammy Shew Jazz, because it has an even tighter backbore than the Bach #76.


Hi iiipopes

Thanks very much. It does sound like I probably wouldn't like the Shew Jazz.

Take Care

Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iiipopes wrote:


I would encourage everyone to try this combination, 3C/76, as for me it gave more focus and core to the tone


Some have commented on the Reeves Classical (I have a 1.25C) which I find to be a significantly tighter blow; you might like it?
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iiipopes
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

razeontherock wrote:
iiipopes wrote:


I would encourage everyone to try this combination, 3C/76, as for me it gave more focus and core to the tone


Some have commented on the Reeves Classical (I have a 1.25C) which I find to be a significantly tighter blow; you might like it?

Thanks, I am well set. I tried a 1 1/2 C in high school when I was at my peak endurance playing every day, and lost tone, range, and endurance. I went back to the 3C I had then, and still have, and got everything back. So I am well set, as the 3C/76 rim and cup feel as comfortable as it has for the last 40 years, and the slightly tighter backbore helps me with my breath support, as I am now 55 years old and can tell I don't quite have the lungs of a young sprout anymore. Now, I must practice, practice, practice!
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently bought a Blessing 3C and love it. Much less expensive than Bach pieces. I have played a Bach 3C for decades, but I like the Blessing 3C because it has a slightly flatter rim than the Bach 3C.
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